In or Out of Europe?

I know being a conservative voter I am asking for trouble (from Eddie Lol)

I don't know which way to vote, which way are you guys leaning?

... I'm also wondering what Boris will do !!!

Andy12345 wrote:I know being a conservative voter I am asking for trouble (from Eddie Lol)

I don't know which way to vote, which way are you guys leaning?

Jeez Andy, I could give you a thousand reasons why we should be out, nay, £55,000,000 reasons why, that's how much we pay in every day of the year to be a member of a disastrously failing corrupt to the core EU club.

Why do so many clever folks think we should stay? they can't all be corrupt

Andy12345 wrote:Why do so many clever folks think we should stay? they can't all be corrupt

Many are and because they live in fear, they think standing with others makes us stronger. I truly believe the UK is the best country in the world. We have lead the world in so many ways for hundreds of years. Most countries follow our legal system. Many of the worlds finest inventions we invented. The steam engine, the steam train and railways, the first nuclear power station to generate electricity. The first jet passenger plane and the jet engine, even apple products are designed by a Brit. We can stand on our own and trade with the whole world, we have many of the worlds finest and longest standing Universities. The list goes on.

i agree with all you've said about UK, I'm wondering about the fear aspect, it'll be an interesting couple of months, if the big companies are fearful have they got a point?

Andy12345 wrote:i agree with all you've said about UK, I'm wondering about the fear aspect, it'll be an interesting couple of months, if the big companies are fearful have they got a point?

Have a Google around, many of the worlds biggest companies who have a factory or office in the UK say we will be fine if out. Will Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW stop wanting to sell their cars in the UK I think not, or the French stop selling their products to us etc. That being the case they will have to buy our products to maintain a balance.

In a nutshell-I want out,Obviously for the large daily membership cost that could be ploughed into our health,education and policing and some of the most ridiculously anal regulations that ultimately hit us in the pocket or lifestyle such as how powerful our vacuum cleaners can be,the death of the stalwart Land Rover Discovery killed by bureaucracy or that sees fishermen having to throw back excellent quality fish back into the sea DEAD due to maximum quotas imposed by Brussels etc...But,alongside that,many small businesses that hardly ever export are paying a small fortune out to satisfy EU regulations on exporting goods,regardless of whether that's relevant to there business or not and also we are very close to EU states and should be cleaning up by trading our goods with them but it's now dropped from 2 thirds to less than half of our goods and services being taken up by EU countries with a quite large amount of our products being now supplied to non EU countries...We should be red tape minimum,independant and concentrating on the whole world as a market as good business is where you find it...

there must be benefits as well?

Andy12345 wrote:there must be benefits as well?

Well,I guess one benefit is I could move to spain or Italy without a visa but that ain't much use to me as my missus don't like leaving the east midlands even! lol

lol no there must be benefits for the country as a whole, financial benefits for business, it can't all be one way

5. Leaving Britain would be catastrophic for wine-drinkers
Here’s the real killer, though. At least in the short-term, the cost of a bottle of plonk is going to sky-rocket.
If Britain left the EU, the cost of an imported bottle of wine would instantly jump by a third. In fact, all imports would be hit because the UK’s existing trade deals were all made via the EU at the World Trade Organisation.
Any car bought from overseas would instantly become ten per cent more expensive, too. Puts fuel duty into perspective, doesn’t it?


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2014/05/21/five-reasons-to-stay-in-the-eu-you-just-cant-argue-with-4719673/#ixzz40jrXibyh

i hear what you guys are saying but then read stuff like this...

Economists at the Centre for Economic Performance (CEP), which is part of the London School of Economics, described a British exit as a "very risky gamble". It said the move would cost jobs, reduce investment and push up the price of goods, even if the Government managed to a strike Swiss-style agreement to keep trade channels open.
According to Treasury estimates, the UK made a net contribution of £8.6bn towards the EU budget last year. While the CEP said a British secession would bring home around 0.5pc of national income as it would no longer have to subsidise agriculture and poorer members, it said the financial gains of not having to transfer money to the EU would be outweighed by the costs.
Even under the most optimistic scenario, where Britain joined the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and enjoyed the same access to the EU's internal market as countries such as Norway and Switzerland, the CEP claimed Britain would lose 2.2pc of gross domestic product (GDP) - or around £35bn in today's prices – because of the dynamic effects of an exit.

that was from
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10836358/UK-could-be-plunged-into-another-crisis-if-it-left-EU.html

Ah, the Torygraph owned by the Barclay brothers, two billionaires who don't even live in the UK. The bottom line for an old has been with one foot in the grave, I don't give a toss what happens. But I do care about what my kids and their kids have to look forward to, and I fear deeply for them.

I grew up in a country were anyone who wanted a good job could find one within a week. A country with a great NHS, a country were kids did not leave Uni with £50K debts. A country were a youngster did not need 50k deposit to buy a modest flat. I could go on (you know me) for a month. This country has gone to the dogs, and worse, much worse is to come. I don't blame young people, they have never had a glimpse of how great this country used to be. The fact is the country has become nation of wimps and yes men, one only has to look at the average diabetes forum, to see people are afraid of their own shadows, and grovel to any kind of authority.

One other thing, so many are so bone idle, they can't even muster up the energy to press the like button now and again, let alone comment. Why they show up here and join is beyond me.

BTW Look out for my new book "How To Make Friends And influence People" only £29.99 published by Wingnut and Sprocket

thats about the UK not europe aint it?

P.S..... we have a like button?

ahhh lol nevermind i found it

Andy12345 wrote:thats about the UK not europe aint it?

P.S..... we have a like button?

Are you pulling my plonker?

errrrr, yes?

Eddie wrote:

Andy12345 wrote:Why do so many clever folks think we should stay? they can't all be corrupt

Many are and because they live in fear, they think standing with others makes us stronger. I truly believe the UK is the best country in the world. We have lead the world in so many ways for hundreds of years. Most countries follow our legal system. Many of the worlds finest inventions we invented. The steam engine, the steam train and railways, the first nuclear power station to generate electricity. The first jet passenger plane and the jet engine, even apple products are designed by a Brit. We can stand on our own and trade with the whole world, we have many of the worlds finest and longest standing Universities. The list goes on.

Partly agree. The Brits have always been good at innovation, but where things go pear shaped is when a small business expands to the point it takes on Professional Management (oxymoron alert!) and goes to the Stock Exchange, then they are doomed.

This joins up with a quote I posted about psychopaths and the point you made about "honest criminals", well  moral ones anyway, and also with what Graham and I were reminiscing over the fate of Leyland, and with dieticians.


Compare and contrast Frank Perkins - innovator of small diesel engines, company expanded, bought by Massey Ferguson (Canadian, well Massey was, Harry Ferguson was Irish and another innovator), bought and sold half a gazillion times since and now owned by Yanks.


Laurence Gardner - innovator of large diesels, bought by Perkins and closed down, see above.


August Claas - German, innovator of European combine harvesters, became a multinational and expanded into various other fields, still owned by (I think) the fifth generation of the SAME FAMILY. Name a UK company that can boast this, JCB is the only one I can think of offhand, Joseph Cyril Bamford  must be one of the few not currently turning in his grave.


The UK and Europe could both learn from the best bits of each other's cultures but instead they are engaged in a race to the bottom.

The problem is if we aren't part of Europe what do we become, the USA's non-mobile aircraft carrier?

Someone asked Ghandi what he thought of Western Civilisation

"I think it would be a very good idea"

I feel much the same about Europe, it would be a very good idea if it wasn't just a gravy train for the mediocre.

In out shake it all about   what ever the outcome of the referendum there's something more scary on the horizon: The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

What is TTIP? And six reasons why the answer should scare you

Have you heard about TTIP? If your answer is no, don’t get too worried; you’re not meant to have

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is a series of trade negotiations being carried out mostly in secret between the EU and US. As a bi-lateral trade agreement, TTIP is about reducing the regulatory barriers to trade for big business, things like food safety law, environmental legislation, banking regulations and the sovereign powers of individual nations. It is, as John Hilary, Executive Director of campaign group War on Want, said: “An assault on European and US societies by transnational corporations.”

Since before TTIP negotiations began last February, the process has been secretive and undemocratic. This secrecy is on-going, with nearly all information on negotiations coming from leaked documents and Freedom of Information requests.

Read the full article 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

Buffoon Boris has a new theme tune.

i would like to vote to leave, I'm not convinced this is the right thing to do, there seems to be reasons for and against, i do think stability is important and staying may provide that, on the other hand how stable is europe either way? it seems they are trying to equalise the eu countries, they seem so very different i can't see this working, at least not without being detrimental to the stronger economies, interestingly i think staying in would be in line with socialist views yet i see the socialists (my opinion lol) amongst us wanting to leave and become more insular, i think we should vote for the good of the country and not us personally, this also applies to the way i vote in our elections, i don't like the idea that brussels has control over us and our laws, but I'm not convinced the money we give to europe isn't returned with interest, i do think the world is getting smaller and this seems a step in the opposite direction, I'm sure if thats a good thing or not, I'm not sure immigration is the biggest issue, a huge amount of our immigration issues seem to be coming from countries outside the eu anyway, and does it really matter that much to our day to day lives, we won't have more money in our pockets, the nhs will still be underfunded and the polititians will still tell lies, i can't imagine we will be any less safe because with the style of terrorism these days theres very little we can do to stop the nut jobs anyway (Paris) i worry that europe will make things difficult for us out of spite if we leave with penalties on trade, i also worry that if thats the case the companies like the big car firms will just move their production abroad to avoid the extra costs making them uncompetitive, i do think we have illusions of grander, we are great but small and not that significant globally, I dont see this improving by leaving, i do think we should be controlling our own borders, but would we do this better if out, all very interesting and I'm still undecided, id like to believe the politicians are not all corrupt and in it for themselves, some think we should stay in, they are elected and very clever people, i ask myself why they would say that if they didn't believe it

"id like to believe the politicians are not all corrupt and in it for themselves, some think we should stay in, they are elected and very clever people, i ask myself why they would say that if they didn't believe it"

Many of the people running the EU in the highest positions were never elected. For the last twenty years auditors and accountants have refused to sign off the accounts due to so much fraud being committed. Ex. Labour leader Kinnock said years ago we should leave, that was until he, his wife and son in law started to trouser over  a £million a year in salary and expenses from the EU, now he wants in big time. He also wanted to do away with the house of Lords, until he was made a Lord. As I said yesterday I could give you a thousand reasons for out.

The bottom line the stay in side will win, the voting turn out will be low, the majority of people are sheep, and love to be slaughtered. And it won't make a difference who wins, because the EU is a failed project and destined for destruction. Lets take a look at what the EU has become and done for the people. 50% of all working age Greeks unemployed, 50% Spanish under 25 unemployed Italy and Portugal the same. Sweden a once very safe country, now the rape capital of Europe. Unreported riots in many EU countries and Neo-Nazi  parties on the rise big time. Largest Bank in Europe Deutsche Bank technically bankrupt and sitting on derivative liabilities of over 50 trillion US dollars, yes you read that right, not millions not even billions, trillions. BTW almost every European Bank including ours are Bankrupt.

We keep being told everything is cool. One fact alone tells us doomsday is on the way, interest rates. Held at half of one percent for years, because they daren't raise rates to even a quarter of the average over the last 50 years. Because millions would lose their homes, Bank bent balance sheets would collapse, and the Government would be bankrupt because it could not raise the interest payments on its borrowing, which btw they have doubled to over £1.5 trillion since coming to office.

"If you are going to tell people the truth, you had better make them laugh or they will kill you." Oscar Wilde

Ain't that the truth, for most people the truth is the last thing they want to hear.

Over to you Andy

hmmmm, in which case none of it matters, the only answer is to buy some guns and wait for a mad max wasteland, the vote isn't important, whichever way it goes, the government is all corrupt, europe is screwed, yet strangely during all this chaos and lead up to doomsday, we should give a fuck about low carbing? lol if you believe all that deep down, why wouldn't you be doing something more important? like building a bunker? rather than trying to help people eat better?

i reckon its more likely that some people are trying very hard to make this very difficult thing balance out, they are faced with a very difficult task, maybe Impossible, and some of the people supposedly trying to make thing better are actually corrupt and looking after themselves, but the majority i have to believe aren't evil masterminds, otherwise whats the point in any of it, my kids are doomed, this i refuse to believe