THE LOW CARB DIABETIC

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THE LOW CARB DIABETIC

Promoting a low carb high fat lifestyle for the safe control of diabetes. Eat whole fresh food, more drugs are not the answer.


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    reasons not to take statins please

    Andy12345
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    Post by Andy12345 Sat Feb 07 2015, 10:45

    Hi

    i may have converted a customer into LCHF, he is not diabetic but has cholesterol of 6.7 and on he's 4th different statin and they are messing him up, i tried to tell him not to eat statins but would love to send him some links to studies

    could anyone who reads studies please give me the best links for me to email him, i know they are out there, I'm sure someone posted a video link recently regarding them here? thank you Smile

    I've given him diet doctor website and suggested he comes here, if he will or not i don't know but i know i hate statins and don't think he should take them. he dosent want to take them either but is feeling compelled to listen to his doctor about them
    Paul1976
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    Post by Paul1976 Sat Feb 07 2015, 10:54

    Andy12345
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    Post by Andy12345 Sat Feb 07 2015, 11:36

    excellent Thankyou sir!
    Eddie
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    Post by Eddie Sat Feb 07 2015, 11:57

    Cholesterol Lowering Drugs for the Elderly, a Very Bad Idea !
    The words of Jeffrey Dach MD

    Flawed and Corrupted Study

    A 2008 publication by Jonathon Afilalo in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology concludes that," Statins reduce all-cause mortality in elderly patients and the magnitude of this effect is substantially larger than had been previously estimated. "  

    Statistics Manipulated

    This 2008 metanalysis by Afilalo is a statistical sleight of hand that gives the results opposite to reality.  Their conclusion is directly opposite to multiple previous studies.  Also, this published study had no Disclosure Statement, another warning sign of bias from authors receiving compensation from drug companies.

    Lowering Cholesterol in the Elderly is a BAD IDEA

    Contrary to the above flawed 2008 metanalysis, it is a very bad idea to lower the cholesterol levels in the elderly with statin drugs. An excellent article on the topic appeared on the Junk Food Science Blog.

    Here's the evidence:

    1) the Honolulu Heart Study published in Lancet 2001, showed that patients with the lowest cholesterol had the highest mortality.  The authors concluded,"These data cast doubt on the scientific justification for lowering cholesterol to very low concentrations  in elderly people."

    2) Krumholz from Yale published his study in JAMA 1994 looking at elevated cholesterol to see if it was associated with increased all-cause mortality or heart disease.  He reported that elevated cholesterol was NOT a risk factor for mortality or heart disease.  He said,"our findings do not support the hypothesis that hypercholesterolemia or low HDL-C are important risk factors for all-cause mortality, coronary heart disease mortality, or hospitalization for myocardial infarction or unstable angina in this cohort of persons older than 70 years."

    3) Beatrice Golomb MD in Geriatric Times 2004, reports that in the elderly, higher cholesterol is linked with improved survival.

    She says, "While patients at high risk for cardiovascular disease receive mortality benefit from statins in studies predominating in middle-aged men (Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study Group, 1994), no trend toward survival benefit is seen in elderly patients at high risk for cardiovascular disease(Shepherd et al., 2002).   A less favorable risk-benefit profile may particularly hold for patients older than 85, in whom benefits may be more attenuated and risks more amplified (Weverling-Rijnsburger et al., 1997). In fact, in this older group, higher cholesterol has been linked observationally to improved survival."

    The above taken from here. http://www.drdach.com/Cholesterol_Statin_Elderly.html

    Also one of my many blog posts.

    Memo to Sir Rory Statin Gissa Job

    "Gissa Job ! I can do that !" Yosser Hughes

    Anyone with an interest in statin drugs in the UK, knows of Sir Rory Collins. Rory promotes statins, he believes they are life savers and wonderful drugs. Now, I am sure Rory is a paragon of integrity, and his honesty is beyond reproach, hence I want a job working for him. The job will be well paid and secure, as his outfit must be awash with money, received from big pharma. Zoe Harcombe stated yesterday here.


    "The web of funding around Collins, CTT, CTSU (Clinical Trial Service Unit) has proved astoundingly difficult to get to the bottom of. I had a bit of a breakthrough recently and came across a declaration of interest for Colin Baigent – CTT secretariat and close senior colleague of Collins. Check page five for current and recent grants. The following have been awarded to Colin Baigent and Rory Collins, (with other names mentioned alongside):
    Merck & Schering £39 MILLION (2002-2011)
    Merck £52 MILLION (2005-2013)
    British Heart Foundation £9 MILLION (2005-2013) (Where does the BHF get that kind of money?) & then another grant from the BHF for £2.7 MILLION (2004-2013) & then a couple more for several hundreds of thousands of pounds.
    Medical Research Council £13.8 MILLION (2008-2013) (Check the most recent appointees to the MRC - a Senior Vice President of Pfizer and Executive Vice President of Astra Zeneca).
    Bayer A mere £965,000
    John Wyeth Ltd £500,000
    Novartis £350,000

    That’s £114 MILLION before you get into the small change."

    Statins are a $30 billion a year earner, yet no proof exists that you will live any longer if you take them. The benefits are minimal and the list of side effects long. Just as many people have heart attacks and strokes with so call 'good cholesterol' numbers as those with so called 'bad cholesterol numbers', that is a fact. The fact that so much money has to be pumped into the 24/7 sell job by the statinators should tell you something, what other drug, or in fact any service or product has been sold as hard as statins ? none that I can think of.

    Come on Rory Gissa Job, any chance of an S Class Merc company motor ?
    sanguine
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    Post by sanguine Sat Feb 07 2015, 12:38

    Andy12345
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    Post by Andy12345 Sat Feb 07 2015, 15:04

    Much as Gracias Amigos Smile
    Indy51
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    Post by Indy51 Sat Feb 07 2015, 16:03

    Dr Graveline's site is also a great resource:
    http://www.spacedoc.com/saturated_fat_and_cholesterol_do_not_cause_heart_disease

    Also, the Cholesterol Sceptics website:
    http://www.thincs.org/index.htm
    RANDBURG
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    Post by RANDBURG Sat Feb 07 2015, 16:51

    Hi,
    Following a Angiogram that showed slight "Furring" of the ends of the tiny heart vessels in my heart, and as my Cholesterol level 4.4 but specifically my LDL of 2.4, my Cardiologist put me on 10mg of   Statin a day.
    He said it would not clear up the problem, but will prevent it getting any worse.
    I have had absolutely no problems with taking the medication, and after a month, Cholesterol  ( Non Fasting) is down to 3.3 and LDL down to 1.8.
    I am happy, Statins work for me as does LCHF dieting, and I don't understand the ANTI everyone seems to have against Statins, they have a place and use .
    Very Happy Cheers
    Hope this thread wont be trashed as others have !!
    Andy12345
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    Post by Andy12345 Sat Feb 07 2015, 17:08

    I took statins for a few months with no problems or side effects, I stopped them because all the negative things I read them, I'm not knowledgable but the evidence against them seems overwhelming to me so I am afraid I am anti statin, not from personal experience but from what I've reAd, I also know my dad took them and he died at 67 with a heart attack so they didn't do him much good

    Thanks guys!
    Eddie
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    Post by Eddie Sat Feb 07 2015, 17:20

    @ RANDBURG "I Hope this thread wont be trashed as others have !!"

    Statins is a very interesting debate, I am sure others will have more to say on the matter.

    As for your comment "Hope this thread wont be trashed as others have !!" I appreciate the forum does become a bit of a mad house at times, but we believe in free speech. The rules are very simple.

    "We welcome all and encourage robust debate on any subject. We detest censorship, but please note ! we will not tolerate racial, religious hatred, homophobic, and overtly sexist posts of any kind. Any posts of this nature will be deleted and a warning issued, on subsequent events permanent banning will take place. Please keep posts and comments legal, and please remember, children may read this forum."

    Freedom of speech can lead to problems, but in my opinion, far better than mods banning, deleting and editing members posts. We have seen so much of that behaviour going on elsewhere.

    I believe it was a lack of freedom of speech and lies and misinformation that has lead to the epidemics of obesity and type two diabetes, not to mention a plethora of other chronic diseases.

    Anyone got any ideas for changing or adding to the forum rules?

    Kind regards Eddie
    Paul1976
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    Post by Paul1976 Sat Feb 07 2015, 17:43

    eddie1 wrote:

    "We welcome all and encourage robust debate on any subject. We detest censorship, but please note ! we will not tolerate racial, religious hatred, homophobic, and overtly sexist posts of any kind. Any posts of this nature will be deleted and a warning issued, on subsequent events permanent banning will take place. Please keep posts and comments legal, and please remember, children may read this forum."


    Anyone got any ideas for changing or adding to the forum rules?


    In my mind,if it's not broke then don't fix it as the current (And basic,common sense rules) make us different to the other forums who sometimes appear to try and appease everyone and be all things to all folks but at the BIG cost of healthy debate and when you consider that a forum is for discussion-stifling that discussion just on the off chance that maybe less than 5% or so of readers may be offended would do us no favours and would make us no better than DCUK IMO.
    I personally feel very passionate about our current moderation style and common sense rules and as long as no bullying of a member occurs(Which we would deal with of course) then I personally would not change my stance on this.
    @Randburg The subject of statins if often a divisive one on forums but it does not mean that your opinion is less worthwhile-You are a very valued member here and differences of opinion are very welcome! Smile
    Andy12345
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    Post by Andy12345 Sat Feb 07 2015, 20:35

    Copied from email

    "Thanks so much Andy. The new diet starts today and I'm trying to get my son to do it too! My wife Alex is buying cauli mash ingredients today! Mike"

    Hehe Smile hope it works out for him, thankyous
    Paul1976
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    Post by Paul1976 Sat Feb 07 2015, 20:56

    Andy12345 wrote:Copied from email

    "Thanks so much Andy. The new diet starts today and I'm trying to get my son to do it too! My wife Alex is buying cauli mash ingredients today! Mike"

    Hehe Smile hope it works out for him, thankyous

    Result!! That is all... thumb-up
    AliB
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    Post by AliB Sat Feb 07 2015, 22:22

    A friend of ours didn't think statins were doing him any harm either until he completely lost his memory and didn't even recognise his family.  It came back after several months, but he's never been the same since.

    It is well known that statins radically deplete co-enzyme Q10 amongst other things, but how often do doctors prescribe them too......?


    Last edited by AliB on Sun Feb 08 2015, 00:14; edited 1 time in total
    graham64
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    Post by graham64 Sat Feb 07 2015, 23:36

    Andy12345 wrote:Hi

    i may have converted a customer into LCHF, he is not diabetic but has cholesterol of 6.7 and on he's 4th different statin and they are messing him up, i tried to tell him not to eat statins but would love to send him some links to studies

    could anyone who reads studies please give me the best links for me to email him, i know they are out there, I'm sure someone posted a video link recently regarding them here? thank you Smile

    I've given him diet doctor website and suggested he comes here, if he will or not i don't know but i know i hate statins and don't think he should take them. he dosent want to take them either but is feeling compelled to listen to his doctor about them

    Andy if he's tried four different statins and had side effects it's more than likely he's intolerant of them, just a word of caution it takes time to adapt to LCHF and if he's due a blood test soon it might skew the results.
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    Post by RANDBURG Sun Feb 08 2015, 05:17

    AliB wrote:A friend of ours didn't think statins were doing him any harm either until he completely lost his memory and didn't even recognise his family.  It came back after several months, but he's never been the same since.

    It is well known that statins radically deplete co-enzyme Q10 amongst other things, but how often do doctors prescribe them too......?

    @Alib,
    Thanks never heard of Q10, but looked it up on google
    ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenzyme_Q10 ).
    WELL, I also take a Beta Blocker, and I am on Warfarin, and according to the article, should have no Q10 left.
    I've also got type 2, so while I enjoy my Low Carb, I can sit back and see if I loose my mind before one of the others take me out. Very Happy something is going to do it !! 
    In the interim, ill chance my arm on Statins, id rather have good cholesterol results, than a possibility of reduced Q10.

    Keep telling me about all the side effects of Statins and ill let you know if I have them, but 3 months down the line, I only see positive Cholesterol numbers
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    Post by j Sun Feb 08 2015, 07:27

    Other than aspirin, is there a more widely field tested CVD drug?
    there are a liver and muscle problem to look out for, but I'm happy taking them
    Andy12345
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    Post by Andy12345 Sun Feb 08 2015, 08:11

    as I remember, he tried 3 different types and suffered a whole range of side effects, from muscle and joint pains to not being able to remember friends names, I assume that's brain fog

    He stopped taking them and all symptoms went, he just had a blood test and his cholesterol is up so the doc have him new ones and said they've run out of different statins to try on him

    He's taken the new ones for four days and as we talked about my health many months ago and he knew I had had cholesterol issues, he asked if I knew a way to get it down without pills

    So that's when the lchf kicked in and he was bang into the whole idea

    I told him what I know but as I'm not a doctor lol I wanted the scientific research to show him so he can research it and not listen to me
    zand
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    Post by zand Sun Feb 08 2015, 08:26

    And here's another logical reason why he shouldn't take statins. No science though sorry. Statins are known to cause muscle problems in some individuals, and it seems like this guy is one of them. The heart is a muscle too, why would you want to take statins that may damage your heart?

    Low cholesterol is far worse than high anyway.
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    Post by Sally Sun Feb 08 2015, 09:05

    To me, there are two aspect to the "Should I take statins?" question.  The first is whether or not you get side effects and are these significant.  The second is, is a reduced or low cholesterol level of any benefit to health and longevity?  Does it really matter if your cholesterol is over five?  Will you live a longer and healthier life if your cholesterol is reduced to three?
    As far I can understand, cholesterol levels are largely an irrelevance.  However, if they are "high", that is somewhere between five and six, it might be worth putting away a little more money for old age, but if they are under five, or worse, under four, time to start considering  funeral arrangements.  
    Do read Malcolm Kendrick's "Great Cholesterol Con", details have been given elsewhere in this thread.
    Sally
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    Post by Eddie Sun Feb 08 2015, 11:47

    Why are we told to use statins? to lower cholesterol. Does lowering cholesterol reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke? NO


    Stains reduce co-enzyme Q10 which is essential, do Doctors usually prescribe CQ10 when prescribing statins NO Why, it costs more than the statin drug. Do the statin makers know it is dangerous to use statins without CQ10 Yes. It was known decades ago.

    From the low carb diabetic blog some time ago.

    It is clinically documented statin medications (Lipitor, Crestor, Zocor, etc) lower the essential nutrient, Co-Enzyme Q10. Co-Enzyme Q10 is an important co-factor in the production of energy and particularly important in muscle function.

    Clinical studies show decreasing levels of Co-Enzyme Q10 lead to increasing severity of cardiovascular symptoms. Now here is the shocker! The pharmaceutical company, Merck, was issued a patent (4,933,165) on a special medication combining a statin medication and Co-Enzyme Q10.

    The researchers knew back in the late 80s and early 90s the significance of adding Co-Enzyme Q10 to statins. Furthermore they knew very well the negative impact of taking statins without supplementing with CoEnzyme Q10.

    The sad news is this special combination medication was never made available to the public. It was basically put on the shelf and forgotten.

    Link to patent information http://www.functionalmedicineuniversity.com/statin-CoQ10.pdf

    If you are using statins ask your Doctor for CQ10. So often we see a person needing more drugs to counteract the side effects of another drug. After nearly seven years I have found no side effects with this sort of medication. Low carb higher fat Mediterranean style diet. Ask your Doctor 'could be right for you'.

    reasons not to take statins please Mackerel%2Band%2BGreek%2Bsalad%2B(1)
    Sally
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    Post by Sally Sun Feb 08 2015, 12:29

    Agree 100%, Eddie.  Eat the right food and, for most of us, we will be 100% there.  I can't believe how much low carb has changed my life, my outlook, my marriage and my husband's health.  I just regret all those wasted years of avoiding fat and tucking in to whole meal bread, pasta etc and heaping piles of fruit and fruit juice on my poor family.  
    Sally


    Last edited by Sally on Sun Feb 08 2015, 12:31; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correcting typo)
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    Post by zand Sun Feb 08 2015, 12:31

    Sally wrote:Agree 100%, Eddie.  Eat the right food and, for most of us, we will be 100% there.  I can't believe how much low carb has changed has changed my life, my outlook, my marriage and my husband's health.  I just regret all those wasted years of avoiding fat and tucking in to whole meal bread, pasta etc and heaping piles of fruit and fruit juice on my poor family.  
    Sally

    Yep me too
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    Post by Paul1976 Sun Feb 08 2015, 12:32

    Me three! That's hindsight for you but onwards and upwards is order of the day like we are doing. Wink
    Eddie
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    Post by Eddie Sun Feb 08 2015, 14:34

    Sally wrote:Agree 100%, Eddie.  Eat the right food and, for most of us, we will be 100% there.  I can't believe how much low carb has changed my life, my outlook, my marriage and my husband's health.  I just regret all those wasted years of avoiding fat and tucking in to whole meal bread, pasta etc and heaping piles of fruit and fruit juice on my poor family.  
    Sally

    Hi Sally twenty years of a low fat high carb diet very near killed me, and that is no exaggeration, I was probably days or weeks away from death. BP 200 over 150 resting pulse rate 140 BPM. I got to the point one morning I could hardly walk with the pain. Reason atheroscleroses. I staggered in to see my GP who was not in that day hoping for meds. I saw another Doctor who started to write a prescription then stopped and said I am not happy with this can you come back this afternoon for an ECG. To cut a long story short, in less than two weeks I had angioplasty and two stents fitted. This is what was found re. the three main heart arteries to my heart. One artery completely clear, one artery 90% proximal stenosis (blockage) one artery two 95% stenoses (blockage) that's a million miles away from a cool situation.

    I spoke to the Cardiologist and said I had been on a high fat diet for almost a year and would this have caused my problem. He said no this situation had taken years to get to this stage, he did not approve of a high fat diet. As my heart had a high pressure catheter in at the time, I did not pursue the discussion with my usual vigour, these procedures for technical reasons are done while fully awake. For once I kept my trap shut, I figured this is a guy I won't wind up.

    This operation saved my life I believe. In hospital at 8 am out at 7 pm the same day, a Friday, and back at work on the Monday feeling twenty years younger.

    Thanks to this man, who had the balls of an Aberdeen Angus, I survived to carry on annoying all the right people, this is my destiny. When Werner first tried this he was almost fired from his job, for carrying out untried and unorthodox medical practise, his boss thought he was nuts. The rest is history.

    Werner Theodor Otto Forßmann (Forssmann in English; 29 August 1904 – 1 June 1979) was a physician from Germany who shared the 1956 Nobel Prize in Medicine (with Andre Cournand and Dickinson Richards) for developing a procedure that allowed for cardiac catheterization. In 1929, he put himself under local anesthetic and inserted a catheter into a vein of his arm. Not knowing when the catheter might pierce a vein, he risked his life and was able to pass the catheter into his heart.

    Link to this genius here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Forssmann

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