150 grams low carb, don't make me laugh!

DCUK Say 120-150 grams per day is low carb they are wrong!

Following on from my post yesterday, stating the diabetes.co.uk forum was now jumping on the low carb bandwagon (after years of banning countless low carbers) purely as an exercise for extraction of private information. This information is used as a money maker with big pharma, yes, this is what they do as evidenced in my post yesterday. It appears this cynical stunt has more sinister connotations. I have received several messages from people who have joined and signed up to the forum's low carb ten week training course, one comment you see below.

"After listing to the introduction it does look like it is a step in the right direction, but they define low carb being between 120g and 150g. IMO that is not low enough to really make a big difference for type 2 diabetics."

This is true, how many type two diabetics with good control on no meds or minimal medication say Metformin, the cheapest, most prescribed and safest drug, could hold safe numbers on 120-150 grams of carb per day? virtually none. How many well controlled type one diabetics could hold safe numbers on that carb intake? very few. I am talking about true safe control, close to or at non diabetic levels.

This is a butt covering exercise, which has also been adopted by the DUK charity in recent times. They are making some noise along the lines of we support low carb, when the numbers they quote are anything but low carb. They have seen the writing on the wall. How long before we see class action law suits? against these promoters of misinformation? How long before outfits promoting, what I call the slow diet of death for diabetics, have been left by the wayside?

The bottom line, diabetes.co.uk are using this new program as a publicity stunt and information gathering exercise. It will probably achieve for them a degree of success, it will achieve very little for diabetics. They probably know this, they should know this. Countless thousands of posts on the forum, since the very start, have talked about great diabetes control via the low carb lifestyle, and none stated numbers anywhere near 150 grams of carbohydrate per day. As I often say, always follow the money, and diabetes.co.uk is all about making money.

If the above was just my opinion it would be meaningless. Increasingly all over the world, highly respected medical professionals are recommending the low carb lifestyle, not only for diabetics, but for those looking to reduce weight, and they are quoting numbers way lower than 120-150 grams of carbohydrate per day.

This is a complete farce how 150g of carbs can be portrayed as low carb shows a lack of knowledge of LCHF, I feel sure those of us that have found success with LC would not have achieved it with that amount of carbs.

According to the blurb the Low Carb program has been developed with the feedback of 20,000 type two's, just who are these people all the LC success stories are in the main from those of us that have kept to around 50g per day.

graham64 wrote:

According to the blurb the Low Carb program has been developed with the feedback of 20,000 type two's, just who are these people all the LC success stories are in the main from those of us that have kept to around 50g per day.

Well,one thing is for certain,they couldn't have got their data from the flog members! Take away the banned members,kitchen fitters,snake oil salesman,sockpuppets and Jona and you're not even left with nowhere near 20,000 active members let alone type 2 diabetics and the ones there that do rave on about controlling their diabetes eating that amount are usually very vocal that "We are all different" this "Not everyone wants to or needs to low carb" that...and of course there was Gezza...Nuff said!

Paul1976 wrote:

graham64 wrote:

According to the blurb the Low Carb program has been developed with the feedback of 20,000 type two's, just who are these people all the LC success stories are in the main from those of us that have kept to around 50g per day.

Well,one thing is for certain,they couldn't have got their data from the flog members! Take away the banned members,kitchen fitters,snake oil salesman,sockpuppets and Jona and you're not even left with nowhere near 20,000 active members let alone type 2 diabetics and the ones there that do rave on about controlling their diabetes eating that amount are usually very vocal that "We are all different" this "Not everyone wants to or needs to low carb" that...and of course there was Gezza...Nuff said!

They probably referred to the views of phoenix, noblehead, cherub and Sid et al

Still I think that their Low-Carb Program is a step that will help. No, it is not what I would recommend, but I have been on other mainstream diabetes forums where after years of official diet advice diabetics are just scared to try low carb. After all it could kill you, it is not a balanced diet, it is not what the ADA or DCUK recommend, and so on.

On top of that if you should mention to a doctor or other health care provider that you are eating low carb perhaps you would start getting approval instead of a warning that low carb might not be such a good idea as I had one doctor tell me.

Just getting people to think that it might be OK to eat low carb would be a huge first step in changing attitudes.

OldTech wrote:Still I think that their Low-Carb Program is a step that will help. No, it is not what I would recommend, but I have been on other mainstream diabetes forums where after years of official diet advice diabetics are just scared to try low carb. After all it could kill you, it is not a balanced diet, it is not what the ADA or DCUK recommend, and so on.

On top of that if you should mention to a doctor or other health care provider that you are eating low carb perhaps you would start getting approval instead of a warning that low carb might not be such a good idea as I had one doctor tell me.

Just getting people to think that it might be OK to eat low carb would be a huge first step in changing attitudes.

Agreed but perhaps they should have used a reduced carb program as the title, calling it a Low Carb program is misleading and does not reflect the experiences of the majority of members past and present who have adopted a LC diet

I still like the Low-Carb title even if it is not how we define low carb. The words are important.

I do agree that reduced carb would be more accurate, but for the masses they need to hear that Low-Carb is OK. The number of carbs is in the details. And note that there are other details that they have not, so far, pointed out. For example, when you lower carbs you have to replace it with something else and that something else is likely to be fat. That realization will bring up a whole new set of phobias.

To illustrate. When I first went low carb by adopting the Atkin's induction diet, my wife had a fit. It was not balanced, and high fat was dangerous. Where were the fruits and whole grain cereals? She thought that the Atkin's diet would kill me! It has taken two years for my wife to admit finally that low carb is good even for her. And what change her mind was getting her first ever "good job" ever after having her teeth cleaned. She had finally won her life-long fight with gingivitis and now credits that result to her lower carb diet (similar to DCUK's Low-Carb Program or the Paleo diet) over the last two years. It is simply not easy to change people's minds when they have had a lifetime of propaganda.

Let's encourage DCUK's efforts. We need some cracks in the wall if officials are ever going recommend lower carb diets as the gold standard.

The posts regarding the flogs latest stunt have received a lot feed back after being placed on our blog and twitter. I have also received emails and telephone calls. I follow many well known medical professionals and high profile low carbers on twitter and more than a few follow me. This is the general consensus of opinion.

They believe to call this diet plan low carb is misleading people and is certainly not a low carb diet. They fear as do I people will try it, fail to get to safe BG numbers and be put off continuing with the plan. Over the years we have all read of studies showing at best mediocre results regarding a low carb trial or study. When we look past the headlines, it is plain to see the low carb diet receiving negative comments had in fact been anything but a low carb diet. Often we see 150 or even 200 grams of carb a day being described as low carb, and it is obvious why diabetics failed to lose the required weight or get to safe stable blood glucose numbers.  

This sort of subterfuge has been used for decades to rubbish healthy saturated fats. Trials and studies have warned us of the dangers of eating fat, while including trans fats in the trials, therefore giving a false impression fats such as butter and lard etc. were a health hazard. It is now generally accepted natural saturated fats pose no health threats, but trans fats are a killer.

I fully accept I am very biased against diabetes.co.uk, the reasons why are very well known. That being said, many of my contacts have never been members and have no particular axe to grind against the flog, many are not diabetics. But as can be seen from comments made on my twitter account, they believe this latest initiative from the flog will do far more harm than good. As Graham said last night, the highest profile low carb antis at the flog, would almost certainly agree with and approve this diet plan, that says a lot I reckon.

It should be remembered many of us here are highly knowledgeable, regarding a true low carb diet and safe diabetes control. If the flogs stunt takes off, many recruits will be newbies and long term poorly controlled and confused. 150 grams of carb per day won’t be doing many any favours, as I am sure every member of this forum knows. Many diabetics will require a considerable amount of medication, on this plan, when a true low carb diet would enable many to go medication free. We know the flog is desperate to further their money making schemes with big pharma, recommending a true low carb diet to all, won’t be getting their cash registers ringing and they know it.

Eddie - DCUK have only released Part 1 of their program. It is an introduction to low carbing. The Department of Health describes low carb as 250g carbs . Trudi Deakin describes low carb as anything below 130g carbs. So by Trudi's standards the lower limit of 120g is in fact low carb.

The video does state that one of the benefits of the Low Carb Program is that it will help you to find the right amount of carbs for you. It also says that some people will need less than the 120g.

This program is for brand new low carbers, not old timers like you and I. I was encouraged to see saturated fats mentioned as early as Part 1. I am sure the next 9 parts will ease people into what you call a low carb diet, if indeed it is necessary for them to go as low as 50g to maintain good blood glucose control. Week 10 is entitled "Reducing carbs further"

I agree with Old Tech. It is great that such a big organisation is using the words 'low carb' at all. It is a massive step in the right direction.

Hi Zand chuffed to see you back over here. Thank you for your contribution to this debate. Do you know I am not a religious person, but I read the bible and at this moment, I am in mind of Luke 15:7 an interpretation.

The Parable of the Lost Sheep

“And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbours, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost! I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”

You have caught me in a transitional period. And I am wondering, am I the bad guy, am I the shepherd, am I the sheep. What say you Zand.

Hmmm a few verses for you then..

Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

So I couldn't possibly answer your question Eddie.  It isn't for me to judge you, you must look into your own heart and examine it.  I would think that most of us would find parts of all 3 in theirs - shepherd, sheep and bad guy.  It's up to us which one we feed.  

Then

Proverbs 21:2 - Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

And  1 Samuel 16:7 The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Ecclesiastes 3:1  For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:  

Time for a change?  Only you can answer that for yourself Eddie.  

Zand tell me what I am missing here.

On this forum you have complained bitterly about the forum of flog and how your posts have been deleted. You know countless low carbers have been unfairly banned from the flog and countless low carb posts deleted, edited and locked. You accepted the mods job here and within weeks resigned and walked away, saying you needed a break from forums. Within days you turned up at the flog supporting a place you have rubbished. Low and behold you turn up here doing a PR job for the flog. What are trying to achieve Zand? because you have me very confused.

I'm trying to spread the low carb message the best way I can. I feel that DCUK is the best place for me to do this. Yes, my messages have been deleted, yes low carbers have been banned. That's all in the past. We can't keep harping on about the past forever. Where does that get us? Where does all this nastiness get you? If you had allowed this place to concentrate on the low carb message I would have stayed here, but you are more interested in criticizing others. That can't be right. Time to move on Eddie, the times they are a changin'.

What I'm trying to achieve is to help people control their diabetes. Simple.

No doubt about it Zand the flog is the best place for you. You dismiss great injustice and out and out corruption as all in the past. "Where does all this nastiness get you?" millions of page views on our blog and website. Well over a thousand followers on twitter, many of the most high profile medical professionals in the world of low carb. "Time to move on Eddie, the times they are a changin" Time to move on for you Zand. I have not changed my stance or attitude one iota in over seven years re. the low carb way. I am what I am, I guess I will have to live with that.

Good luck Zand and the best of health to you and yours.

Yes, all the best to you too Eddie.

Perhaps you would kindly remove my name from your list of members now. It was fun for a while, but like you say it's time for me to move on now.

"Is this new thing making any sense to anyone? I can't yet see what it offers me that this forum doesn't. Apart from a load of apps?"

The dastardly plan unwinds more by the day.

After much noise and trumpeting, is the flog's low carb program another failed initiative? The flog have stated 40,000 people have signed up for the low carb diet program. But early reports stated the flog's idea of low carb was 150 grams per day, a very long way from a true low carb diet. This appears to have been confirmed by a member commenting on the much hyped 2016 recipe book. A free down load, for members only, once the member has parted with more private information.  

While on the subject of the flog, I see the nominations for new mods thread has now been closed and locked. I can fully appreciate most honest people with a shred of integrity would not want to clasp the poisoned chalice, but was somewhat disappointed some low carb members, and in the past highly vociferous nominees, requested their names be struck from the list. These people had a chance to restore some honesty to the forum moderation, a very tall order, I agree, but a possible chance thrown away. Granted, it is highly likely the new mods will be a chip of the present corrupt and toadying block.

BTW I see the number of members quoted has gone up massively in the last few months, and now stands at "Join 419,563 members today and get a free member pack" with way less than a 1000 members posting a day, I reckon that is less than one quarter of one percent of the membership posting per day at best, not exactly on fire these days is it.

A new feature is the x1 button which has been received enthusiastically, rather ironic, when you think not so long ago, low carb members posting +1 were banned. One thing is for sure, the FLOG works in mysterious ways.

Personally. i don't blame folks for not wanting to be mods, i reckon you can do any good as a member, if they didn't want the pressure of having to do the work related to mod hood, thats up to them, different strokes for different folks, i would not want to be the target of whining idiots all day long complaining about other people, but thats just me, i have lost my compassion I'm afraid, i kinda figure if they don't want to listen, then let them crack on, i spent years trying to save the world over there, only to be shown the door, my one regret is not being able to help, comfort and encourage newbie diabetics in their hour of need, i was never clued up enough to help with anything technical, just wanted to shine a light in peoples darkest moments, but heyho, plus id have to good all the time, ummmm we all know that couldn't ever happen

id say the +1 banning of Paul was similar to my "i agree" banning, it was just an excuse to get rid of us, and very successful hehe

i try to hate the place, but it saved my life, not the place, just certain people, most of which are now gone, the rest are here, thankfully

i just read up this thread (after posting hehe) i agree that 150g is not low carbing and i also agree that it could be tried and failed at, although i do understand the step in the right direction sentiments, its like saying to an alcoholic, just cut your drinking down and see if that helps, it may help a little but won't cure their alcoholism, just as eating 150g of carbs a day could do much to bg levels, my bg did improve as i reduced my carbsto that sort of level, i think i went down to 18mmol lol, i met a dietician in my office yesterday, she bought a piece of stone off me, we got into a chat and she said the eat well plate was a stepping stone and not what people should be eating, an improvement on what they ate before, 150g carbs imo is similar to saying that, i prefer to tell it how it is, if you want great bg you need to eat 50g or in case 30g, if we aim at perfect and fail we fail closer to perfect than failing at the stepping stone and being nowhere (makes sense to me anyway lol)

Andy, I am beginning to think you have become and undercover agent for The Shiny White Teeth Bloke

A step in the right direction is not going to make much difference to most. To be totally convinced a convert needs to see his/her numbers plummet, then there is no going back. This can be done in days. But half way measures reap half way results. If we are going to do something we have to do it properly, or many will believe our way does not work. For years the duplicitous ones have tried to blur the definition of true low carb. I would suggest no one on this forum is using 150 carbs per day and getting good control of BG numbers. It cannot be done.

Flog members have proved this countless times, as has everyone on this forum.

Your turn to take the piss

i thought i was agreeing with you???

who is the shiny white teeth bloke?

The owner




As posted here

http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/dcuk-aka-forum-of-flog-owner-says-you.html

BTW In September 2015 The place claimed to have over 160,000 members. Now it's 419,563. WOW get that recruitment guy a cigar.

My top teeth are as good as those to look at...Shame mines a denture though!

Paul1976 wrote:My top teeth are as good as those to look at...Shame mines a denture though!

Ah, but only your teeth are plastic! he ain't known as Plastic Panesar for nothing

150g of carbs a day certainly ain't low carb. However, at risk of being unpopular, it's better than 250g of carbs. It's a step in the right direction and that must be a good thing ? OK, I appreciate we all have issues with the mods there and the way the forum has been run and how we have been treated but putting that aside, I'm pleased to see partial progress.
Members won't see plummeting numbers but they will certainly see an improvement. If I used to drink 10pints a night and now I only drink 5, it's progress. OK, I've still got a drink problem but for those unwilling to quit, cutting down is the lesser of 2 evils.