Is this forum a complete and utter failure?

Indy51 wrote:I've been puzzled for a while as to why you are all so seemingly obsessed with that place. It's all you say and more, so why keep giving links to the place and free advertising to it? If you're a newbie, you'll go where there's traffic and lots of posting, so mostly you're just recruiting new members for them as far as I can see.

I'm finding it easier to stay away from the place these days because for my limited time and interest, there are way too many posts and I'm too lazy to bother keeping up. Plus now that they've removed "new posts" again and Giverny hasn't bothered to respond to the thread about it, even less reason to go there.

OK Indy, so you won't be posting over there again, get first in the queue to give me a damn good birching.

eddie1 wrote:

Indy51 wrote:I've been puzzled for a while as to why you are all so seemingly obsessed with that place. It's all you say and more, so why keep giving links to the place and free advertising to it? If you're a newbie, you'll go where there's traffic and lots of posting, so mostly you're just recruiting new members for them as far as I can see.

I'm finding it easier to stay away from the place these days because for my limited time and interest, there are way too many posts and I'm too lazy to bother keeping up. Plus now that they've removed "new posts" again and Giverny hasn't bothered to respond to the thread about it, even less reason to go there.

OK Indy, so you won't be posting over there again, get first in the queue to give me a damn good birching.  

I didn't say that

I skim the place and if something interests me enough to put fingers to keyboard, I'll post - same as at any of the forums I visit. Just as I get older and more curmudgeonly (is there such a word   ), I find less and less that stirs me out of my apathy. I maybe read 10 or so posts each time I visit because it's a thread I'm already following and/or the title sounds interesting. If it's something along the lines of "should we re-use lancets" or "strawberry ketones", I don't even bother reading anymore, as how many times have those subjects already been done to death?

"Mark all forums read" is my favourite button at the flog

OK, give us a kiss and we will call it quits.

eddie1 wrote:OK, give us a kiss and we will call it quits.

I do wish someone would explain to me what is so bloody fascinating about that place to you all?

Maybe I don't get it 'cos I'm an outsider anyway being from Oz? Or maybe it's because it wasn't the first forum I joined? Or because I'd already researched and decided on LCHF before I joined it that makes me not really feel any loyalty to anyone except maybe Jenny Ruhl for pointing me in the right direction? I guess a lot of you feel the place saved your life, so maybe that's why you get so worked up about the corruption there.

Indy51 wrote:

eddie1 wrote:OK, give us a kiss and we will call it quits.

I do wish someone would explain to me what is so bloody fascinating about that place to you all?

Maybe I don't get it 'cos I'm an outsider anyway being from Oz? Or maybe it's because it wasn't the first forum I joined? Or because I'd already researched and decided on LCHF before I joined it that makes me not really feel any loyalty to anyone except maybe Jenny Ruhl for pointing me in the right direction? I guess a lot of you feel the place saved your life, so maybe that's why you get so worked up about the corruption there.

Did you put countless hours into that forum and have 2500 posts deleted in one click of a mouse? I did.

eddie1 wrote:Zand, believe it or not, there is no-one I respect and admire more than people who take me on. Jan and my best friend these days Graham pull me up every day. I detest yes men, but I cringe at what DCUK could have been. They have deleted a few of your posts, honest truth, DCUK deleted around 2500 of my posts and well over 500 hundred of Graham's posts. Almost all useful stuff to the average diabetic. The DCUK forum is a totally corrupt and a sinister place, controlled by deadbeats, non diabetics and liars.

Yes I see all that Eddie. But what I also see is that you have become so used to fighting them that I'm not sure you know how to stop fighting the individuals. It's the disease we need to fight, not them now. Science is proving them to be wrong. I am very like you, I like a fight too (lol, say you haven't noticed), but you're winning this one now, at long last. Don't forget the original aim was to help diabetics. The fighting against those who want to hinder diabetics became tied up in it all. It was bound to. I don't dispute that you have done a great job in the last 7 or so years, but the tide is changing. I want to see you crying tears of joy every single day when someone posts to thank you. That would hurt those who spoke out against you and Graham far more than anything you can say about them on any blog or forum. It would also be so constructive because once those posts start coming in then more and more will follow.

Now is the time to reap the rewards of all your hard work. Please don't shoot yourself in the foot by carrying on this war with a few individuals.

eddie1 wrote:
Did you put countless hours into that forum and have 2500 posts deleted in one click of a mouse? I did.

Yes, and that's terrible Eddie, but it's your posts that died, not the ideas behind them. Your posts are never going to come back, but I assume that the messages behind most of them are being repeated and reiterated not only by learned members such as Indy51, Jack and Dillinger, but dare I say by a growing body of ordinary members who push the message day in day out.

So DCUK is big and corrupt, but as Indy says people go there because it's visible. And they get help from low carbers. Isn't that really what counts? And the ordinary members there know about Anna's and Cherub's behaviour and are working around them - they're not just cannon fodder. And those of us who have participated here are also more aware of the personalities so thanks for that.

You are clearly on a mission, and good on you for that, and we know that LCHF is the way to go, and slowly the world is coming round to agree. The information and links you provide here are great, but sometimes I think you are draining your energies on something that you won't change - it really is just . Ranting is fine, and if it makes you feel better great, but does it? Does it just make you more and more angry and bitter? If it does, time to rein it in and channel your undoubted energy and wisdom into more positive areas.

I've just read through all the recent posts and I'm struggling to come up with a decent comment. I'll just write down what I'm thinking in no particular order.
Our forum here is still less than a year old. It was started not because we thought we could take on DCUK but because we wanted to get our message out without having to battle mods over there. We made a great start. Lots of new members and posting regularly. We grew quickly but it was never going to keep expanding the way it was. Most members joined because we knew them at DCUK. Our trouble from day 1 was trying to recruit newbies, we knew that. Our forum wasn't showing up on Google searches which didn't help. Because of this, our post count slowed down. Pretty soon, it did start to feel like a clique rather than a forum but that's not for want of trying. As for Eddie, I agree, he does ruffle feathers and he can be a bit of a loose cannon but the reason I stick around is because despite his flaws, he is still passionate about helping other diabetics and spreading the LCHF word. Talking about flaws, we all have them. My biggest flaw is not always following my own advice. There are many more but that's certainly one related to forums.
DCUK, yes, we do berate certain members there but for a good reason. The way they treated myself and many friends of mine was disgusting. If I could, I'd post there having a moan but my posts would just get deleted. So, we sometimes vent our frustrations here. We know for a fact they lurk here so it's our only defence to bad treatment and unfair behaviour. Is it childish ? Perhaps. However, have a look at the number of threads here and the vast amounts of information. A tiny percentage are aimed at DCUK.
Going back to the clique feeling ( told you this would be all over the place ) the main reason for this is lack of regular posters. I can't speak for others but sometimes I would just post something just to keep the place active. There were days when only a few of us would post and that's why it took on a clique feeling. This wasn't our intention, it was just because lots come here to read but not post ( which is fine BTW ). We've tried all sorts of threads, ideas, controversial posts, music, news etc but without new blood, it's a slog sometimes.
So, what's the answer ? Honestly, I don't know. All I want to do is try to help others via a forum. Ultimately, one thing we all have in common is diabetes and the willingness to help others in our own time. I would rather see us trying to come up with some ideas/solutions together rather than argue about DCUK. I really am open to suggestions.

eddie1 wrote:

"As for Eddie, I agree, he does ruffle feathers and he can be a bit of a loose cannon"

After ruffling too many feathers, a swift exit was required    

LOL!!! I bet there's a fair few on the web that wishes they could do that to me too!

Stop cherry picking Eddie ;-)

Paul wrote:

eddie1 wrote:

"As for Eddie, I agree, he does ruffle feathers and he can be a bit of a loose cannon"

After ruffling too many feathers, a swift exit was required    

LOL!!! I bet there's a fair few on the web that wishes they could do that to me too!

Well I'm not one of them!..(and I wouldn't want to do that to Eddie either, but don't tell him that, he might get complacent )

And yes, I have noticed your name change and photo change Loose Cannon .

Maybe we do overdo the DCUK posts here but given what's going on over there with so many LC advocates going missing presumed banned, lots of post edited and locked threads it's hardly surprising.

When you look at the moderation team four out of five of the active ones have connections with cugila who was a complete control freak and they are of the same mindset, the anti LC agenda is blatantly obvious.

But Graham, how is banging on about it here all the time going to help anyone exactly? We should be confident enough in our own message (and we are aren't we?) to just promote that and not worry about what goes on elsewhere. It has been said often enough here that all the success stories on DCUK are low carb ones, let it continue despite the admin/mod personalities.

Today examples of who this forum do not matter to:

Receptionists husband is T2 not on insulin on gluco... liquid? (bit confused about it anyone know the stuff?) anyhow out of control bloods so l said l can tell you how he can control it no problem from today LCHF
Oh he loves his food.
Well my breakfast is a full grill/fry up.
Oh god l couldn't face that first thing...
Ermmm ok forget it l think l will go get a mug of tea.
TRANSLATION l am not wasting my time with you whatever l say wont be used for your husband and l doubt he would put the effort in...why bother thats what drugs are for.

2nd Case..
Nurses cousins fiancée is a totally out of control t2 loves his food makes no effort at control says no one will tell him what to do if he dies he dies at least he will die with food and life he wants.
She is not happy her cousin is marrying him and l commented that there isn't a lot of love there if he makes those statements. She agrees and wishes her cousin would find someone else who cared about her.

Mud Island Dweller wrote:Today examples of who this forum do not matter to:

Receptionists husband is T2 not on insulin on gluco... liquid? (bit confused about it anyone know the stuff?) anyhow out of control bloods so l said l can tell you how he can control it no problem from today LCHF
Oh he loves his food.
Well my breakfast is a full grill/fry up.
Oh god l couldn't face that first thing...
Ermmm ok forget it l think l will go get a mug of tea.
TRANSLATION l am not wasting my time with you whatever l say wont be used for your husband and l doubt he would put the effort in...why bother thats what drugs are for.

2nd Case..
Nurses cousins fiancée is a totally out of control t2 loves his food makes no effort at control says no one will tell him what to do if he dies he dies at least he will die with food and life he wants.
She is not happy her cousin is marrying him and l commented that there isn't a lot of love there if he makes those statements. She agrees and wishes her cousin would find someone else who cared about her.

Sometimes,sadly,despite everyone's best efforts,advice and good intentions,there will always be the few 'Ostriches' who don't want to know and will vehemently defend their poor dietary choices in the belief that somehow,a shorter life with a sudden death is worth it so they can eat the spuds,cakes,crusty white etc...Sadly Diabetic complications,as we know,do NOT give you an easy death,early YES but not a death that involves someone dying with a Big Mac in one hand,Donut in the other and a happy fulfilled smile on their face...Trouble is,by the time the 'Ostriches' realise all this-The damage is already done!

graham64 wrote:Maybe we do overdo the DCUK posts here but given what's going on over there with so many LC advocates going missing presumed banned, lots of post edited and locked threads it's hardly surprising.

When you look at the moderation team four out of five of the active ones have connections with cugila who was a complete control freak and they are of the same mindset, the anti LC agenda is blatantly obvious.

Yes I agree Graham, and if that's what the forum was set up for, to point out the faults at DCUK, then fine. Like Eddie (sorry, Loose Cannon) I have voiced my opinion of DCUK too. If that's what you all want from this, that's OK, I'll go with the flow. I would just like to see Eddie's (oops, LC'S) and your passion used to save eyes and limbs and lives. Yes I know you have both achieved so much more than I ever could already and I look up to you both in this. I wasn't born to lead or set up something new like you. In a way I envy you. I am grateful for all the hard work you have done.

The new thing 'over there' is to ban someone from a particular thread only. So if the wrong person is winning the argument, they can be stopped from posting on it.

If we keep going round in circles slagging off DCUK, then isn't cugila still controlling things? I spoke out because I don't want to see people like him winning and when our focus is on him and the likes of him, they are winning. I really do feel a 'closed' forum for those of us who have strong feelings to air our views on would be helpful.

I didn't speak out to hurt or upset anyone. I just feel the LCHF message is so important nothing should get in the way.

This forum was set up to spread the low carb message, to post up interesting information to help diabetics and those wishing to lose weight. To post links to related trials, studies and papers. Clearly we hoped to be spending time helping newbies and people in trouble, that has not happened to a high level yet, but hopefully that will happen in time.

The forum was not set up to be a tool for taking on DCUK, or some of the members and management of the said forum. I and others have a blog that has done a pretty good job for years in exposing the corruption, underhandedness and stupidity that goes on at the flog.

That being said, we said right from the start in the forum rules, we detest censorship and if a post is legal it stays on the forum. Clearly members have had reason to criticise  DCUK and wanted to say so over here, so be it. I appreciate some people find the comments made about DCUK distasteful and unedifying, what are we to do, start censoring, editing or deleting their post? Zand, you say tonight a new stunt has appeared at the flog "The new thing 'over there' is to ban someone from a particular thread only. So if the wrong person is winning the argument, they can be stopped from posting on it" So, who decides who is"the wrong person" another wrong person, they have a few wrong persons over there, including all the mods bare Ian Day.

I don't buy for one minute, people will not post on here because of the small amount of 'grief posts' that appear. I have seen members of the flog join here, make some great posts, only to come back here and change one DCUK known anonymous name, to an unknown anonymous name and then disappear, such is the fear permeating from the flog.

As for your comment Zand "I really do feel a 'closed' forum for those of us who have strong feelings to air our views on would be helpful" What would that achieve? a group of people hiding out in the shadows slagging of the flog etc. We know the antis and corrupt mods read this forum, and we also know they do not like the antics having the spotlight shined upon them.

If the DCUK forum was a small place such as this, it would not be worth commenting on, but it is the largest diabetes forum in Europe. We all know how diabetics have suffered because of junk food outfits and big pharma corruption, fraud and lies. How tragic that because of commercial considerations, the largest diabetes forum is a place that cannot be trusted, and thread locking, banning and editing is the order of the day.

We have true free speech here, but like everything it comes at a cost, when people allow fear or the use of fear, to suppress free speech, we are all finished.

Eddie, you said

"This forum was set up to spread the low carb message, to post up interesting information to help diabetics and those wishing to lose weight. To post links to related trials, studies and papers. Clearly we hoped to be spending time helping newbies and people in trouble, that has not happened to a high level yet, but hopefully that will happen in time."

Well the forum ticks all the boxes beautifully well, except one, and we have had a little success there too.  

I agree with what you say about freedom of speech and concede that a closed forum wouldn't do anything to promote this.  I hadn't thought of that aspect myself, thank you.

Generally, I would say my own posts lack substance, they are just there to fill the gaps.  I can only reply to any threads with the limited knowledge that I have gleaned from my own experience.  I love the informative posts here, but I'll never be able to contribute in that way.

So, I can see from your most recent post that you intend this forum to continue in the same vein; this is how you always intended it to be.  Now I know that, I won't be arguing with the five of you about it anymore (well 4 of you, I could never argue with Jan, she's too lovely).  

So my final answer to your question "Is this forum a complete and utter failure?" is "No, far from it,"

Now I am going back to bed. My husband woke me up when he was getting up at 2 am to catch a flight and I just couldn't get back to sleep. Good night

Thanks Eddie, er, Loose Cannon, that (re)clarifies things, and as Zand says most of the boxes are ticked. Hope you didn't mind the debate (well you did start it)! I hope in time the membership and visibility of this forum does increase, but I'm still of the opinion (and we may have to differ on this) that the tone of the site sometimes does impact on new member uptake. I understand why you and others feel so strongly, I would feel the same, but I'd just sooner see the comments on DCUK more objective and less vitriolic - for me the message is made much stronger and more understandable to newcomers that way. So maybe stick to the 'look who funds DCUK' type information and less of the 'yeah they're all a bunch of corrupt wankers' stuff (even if it's true ).

zand wrote:The new thing 'over there' is to ban someone from a particular thread only. So if the wrong person is winning the argument, they can be stopped from posting on it. 

Not really new it happened to me a few years ago, far worse was a thread I started in the LC forum at DCUK which was removed and posted among the comments in a completely different thread with the link de-activated and I was also locked out of my post

graham64 wrote:

zand wrote:The new thing 'over there' is to ban someone from a particular thread only. So if the wrong person is winning the argument, they can be stopped from posting on it. 

Not really new it happened to me a few years ago, far worse was a thread I started in the LC forum at DCUK which was removed and posted among the comments in a completely different thread with the link de-activated and I was also locked out of my post

That's more misinformation then. I read it when they were telling us the benefits of the recent upgrades, so I believed it was new. Sorry. I have fallen foul of the spam filter though. Mention you spent time cleaning your kitchen and the filter thinks you are flogging kitchens and tells you that you are spam! I've been called worse things than spam though.