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Eddie
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    Reconceptualizing major depressive disorder as an infectious disease

    yoly
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    Post by yoly Mon Jan 05 2015, 11:08

    (Interesting theory but inflammation is not only caused by a pathogen there is low systemic inflammation caused by food, stress, environment, etc...)

    http://www.biolmoodanxietydisord.com/content/4/1/10

    Abstract

    In this article, I argue for a reconceptualization of major depressive disorder (major depression) as an infectious disease. I suggest that major depression may result from a parasitic, bacterial, or viral infection and present examples that illustrate possible pathways by which these microorganisms could contribute to the etiology of major depression. I also argue that the reconceptualization of the human body as an ecosystem for these microorganisms and the human genome as a host for non-human exogenous sequences may greatly amplify the opportunity to discover genetic links to the illness. Deliberately speculative, this article is intended to stimulate novel research approaches and expand the circle of researchers taking aim at this vexing illness.

    Background

    Despite decades of substantial research efforts, major depressive disorder (MDD) remains among the most common mental disorders, with a 16.6% lifetime prevalence rate [1]. Pharmacological treatment approaches have not changed during this period, targeting primarily receptor-ligand interactions [2]. These types of antidepressants may bring relief to patients with severe symptoms but are not clinically more effective than placebos in mild to moderate cases [3]. Indeed, recurrence rates of 50% for first-episode patients and of 80% for second-episode patients [4] suggest that the core of the illness goes untreated.

    Given this track record, I argue that it is time for an entirely different approach. Instead of conceptualizing MDD as an emotional disorder, I suggest to reconceptualize it as some form of an infectious disease. I propose that future research should conduct a concerted search for parasites, bacteria, or viruses that may play a causal role in the etiology of MDD. I present three arguments why this may be a fruitful endeavor. I have outlined the idea in much greater detail elsewhere [5], but will highlight some key points here.

    (More on the Link)

    Also TED Video;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dD29XHp6CU&feature=youtu.be

    zand
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    Post by zand Mon Jan 05 2015, 12:53

    I confess I haven't yet watched the video, I will when I have the brain power to do so.

    I would say that my own depression has a genetic link (paternal side) and is also linked to trauma I had as a very young child. My father had different trauma when he was young too. Whilst illness can make depression worse and can cause depression itself short term, I am not sure I can go along with the idea that it's totally disease related (unless you go for the wider meaning of the word disease meaning 'dis-ease').

    Surely if it were infectious more people would understand it? Depression isn't simply feeling down because of something, it's there in good times and bad alike.

    I am open to thinking of health as a holistic matter, but can't go as far as this idea about the causes of depression.

    Isn't depression more about the balance in the amount of serotonin and dopamine in the brain?
    Eddie
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    Post by Eddie Mon Jan 05 2015, 13:13

    I cannot remember having a chat with a person that suffered from depression and not understand why. That leaves two situations in my opinion. 1. can the reason or reasons for depression be changed? if so change 'em. If not, put the grief behind you and move on. Some will say that's easy for you to say you don't know what it like, and they would be wrong, very wrong.
    zand
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    Post by zand Mon Jan 05 2015, 13:42

    eddie1 wrote:I cannot remember having a chat with a person that suffered from depression and not understand why. That leaves two situations in my opinion. 1. can the reason or reasons for depression be changed? if so change 'em. If not, put the grief behind you and move on. Some will say that's easy for you to say you don't know what it like, and they would be wrong, very wrong.

    Well Eddie I never understood why I have suffered depression for much of my adult life until I was 42 years old. I have spent the last 15 years trying to 'move on' as you call it. I can't do so without help. I cannot get over the past and really live again without help. The stiff upper lip reaction did me no good whatsoever, far from putting the grief behind me, it just buried things deeper.

    So in answer to your questions

    1. No I cannot change my past.

    2. I have tried to move on but can't. Now I am facing it and having counselling and talking anti-depressants to help me with the counselling. I hope I will be able to lose weight and truly get on with my life when I am through all of that. Maybe I will never get through it.

    I believe that you have been depressed and have moved on from it. Was your depression 'reactive' depression? i.e. caused by something or clinical depression ? i.e. there for no particular reason? The two forms are very different. We all get 'down' when things don't go our way but the depression I have suffered is there all the time, even when things are going well for me.

    I found your post a tad ignorant of what others may be going through. Not all depression is the same. We can't all just 'get over it'.

    Right now I am dealing with the on-going depression that I have had for most of my life plus added depression due to having the flu.

    So yes, I'm going to say it Eddie. You really do not know what the depression I have suffered is like. If you did you wouldn't have posted what you did. It isn't your fault that you don't understand, but trust me, you really don't.

    Two Collies
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    Post by Two Collies Mon Jan 05 2015, 14:05

    eddie1 wrote:I cannot remember having a chat with a person that suffered from depression and not understand why. That leaves two situations in my opinion. 1. can the reason or reasons for depression be changed? if so change 'em. If not, put the grief behind you and move on. Some will say that's easy for you to say you don't know what it like, and they would be wrong, very wrong.
    Thanks for the sympathetic post!
    Eddie
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    Post by Eddie Mon Jan 05 2015, 14:24

    "1. No I cannot change my past." That goes for everyone I reckon, but we can change our future. I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. It seems to me everyone here is so very very fortunate, but not everyone knows it.

    This is not aimed at anyone here. The happiest person I have ever known is Jan, she spends her whole life working and caring for others, never thinks of herself, asks for nothing, wants for nothing other than the happiness of others. Something to be learnt here I reckon. Just read her posts on this forum, her joy and love of life shines through with every post. It took me forty-five years to find her, the finest human being I have ever met and ever will.
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    Post by zand Mon Jan 05 2015, 14:35

    I too love to help and care for others, when my health allows it. Do you think I am depressed because I am always thinking about myself and not others? You are so wrong. I have always put others first.

    I have always counted my blessings. The depression still remains though. That's why I am asking for help now.

    I am trying to change my future, as I am sure we all are to some degree.

    Telling me or others like me that we are more fortunate than others just doesn't help. Why would it? Why would I feel better because someone is worse off than me?
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    Post by Eddie Mon Jan 05 2015, 14:50

    "I too love to help and care for others, when my health allows it. Do you think I am depressed because I am always thinking about myself and not others? You are so wrong. I have always put others first."

    I said my last comment was not aimed at anyone on the forum. You take every comment as if it is personally aimed at you.

    "I have always counted my blessings. The depression still remains though. That's why I am asking for help now."

    For what my opinion is worth, the only person that can help you, is you.

    "I am trying to change my future, as I am sure we all are to some degree."

    Agree pretty much, but I believe in destiny and some things are written.

    "Telling me or others like me that we are more fortunate than others just doesn't help. Why would it? Why would I feel better because someone is worse off than me?"

    That was said in the light of we must count our blessings and not dwell on what we do not have, or what we would like to be.. We are all very fragile and all have weaknesses and failings.
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    Post by zand Mon Jan 05 2015, 15:11

    No I wasn't taking the comment as if it were aimed at me specifically. You seem to think that being a 'good' person makes Jan a happy person. I don't doubt that she is both of these things, she certainly seems so from her posts. But does that make someone who is depressed less of a person than her, simply because they suffer from depression? That was why I answered you in that way. If I hadn't had depression for much of my life I may well have been just like Jan. Similarly if Jan had had my problems she may have been more like me.

    So how can I help myself then Eddie? Like I said I tried for 15 years. I'm running out of time. I'm trying to help myself now by asking for help more readily.

    You say 'some things are written'. So the past was meant to be????

    Your last sentence proves you don't really understand depression at all. It is not a logical condition. I am not depressed because of what I have or don't have, or because of what I am or am not. It is far deeper than that. Again I have answered you in personal terms because I cannot answer for anyone else. This doesn't mean I think you are 'getting at' me personally. Likewise I am not having a go at you personally either. However it's mostly us two on this thread so it may seem like that. I am simply trying to express how I feel to you and to anyone else who reads this.

    When I post on any forum, it's the real me speaking, from the heart. I can't be any other way now. I have pretended to be someone I am not for far too long.

    yoly
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    Post by yoly Mon Jan 05 2015, 15:24

    Prolonged depression can cause hypothalamus changes, the way antidepressants drugs works is by stimulating hypothalamus repair. But they don't work in everyone. Genetics influence how well people respond to antidepressants. Many people with childhood trauma suffer from post traumatic stress syndrome (PTSD) the same as battle chock suffered by soldiers. These produce changes in the brain that affect how they perceive events, increasing stress, anxiety and depression.

    The theory that inflammation can make these worst make sense. Because as many other conditions is complex. There are genetic, environmental, physiological, psychological and spiritual factors involved.
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    Post by zand Mon Jan 05 2015, 16:02

    yoly wrote:Prolonged depression can cause hypothalamus changes, the way antidepressants drugs works is by stimulating hypothalamus repair. But they don't work in everyone. Genetics influence how well people respond to antidepressants. Many people with childhood trauma suffer from post traumatic stress syndrome (PTSD) the same as battle chock suffered by soldiers. These produce changes in the brain that affect how they perceive events, increasing stress, anxiety and depression.

    The theory that inflammation can make these worst make sense. Because as many other conditions is complex. There are genetic, environmental, physiological, psychological and spiritual factors involved.

    Yes yoly, as far as my own depression is concerned, I agree 100% with this post. As well as taking anti-depressants, my counsellor has taught me a technique to alter the balance of serotonin and dopamine in the brain. It works when I am not too depressed to remember to do it.
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    Post by Jan1 Mon Jan 05 2015, 18:07

    Some topics appear to bring more discussion and views than others 'strange but true' as the saying goes.

    As with any illness - is there an easy answer? No I don't think there is. Of course, it would be great if there was but life doesn't happen that way. If everything was simple and easily solved I think many would find life boring. Life and all it brings does mean a mixture of good and bad, but hopefully a lot of in-between. It is how we deal with it that is important, and this can vary from person to person. We can sometimes be guilty of making things far more complex than they are ..... and sometimes they can be. Who said things are black or white? Doesn't grey come into the equation?

    I know of those who have had 'the electric shock' treatment for depression - is this right? Does it work? Looking around at those who have gone through this experience I don't think it has. Are anti-depressants the answer? For some these can help .... but there may always be an underlying trend to depression, genetics may play their part.

    Talking and sharing problems, thoughts, feelings ... can lead to better understanding, self help and improvement with depression, but it is not an immediate effect. Time is often needed and someone saying "pull yourself together" is often not the wisest of words.

    Those that have experienced an illness are often better equipped to help those suffering.

    Just my thoughts ............

    All the best Jan
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    Post by graham64 Mon Jan 05 2015, 22:04

    Check out this article on a similar theme in the Guardian

    Is depression a kind of allergic reaction?

    A growing number of scientists are suggesting that depression is a result of inflammation caused by the body’s immune system

    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/04/depression-allergic-reaction-inflammation-immune-system
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    Post by zand Tue Jan 06 2015, 07:05

    Thanks @graham64.  That's an interesting article.  I started off being a bit cynical, but when it mentioned stress as a cause of the inflammation then it made more sense to me.

    edit: I also noticed that Interferon caused depression in cancer patients as that's what it did to my mother. I always thought that this was because it also gave her flu like symptoms but that would fit with the inflammation argument too.
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    Post by zand Tue Jan 06 2015, 08:25

    @yoly thanks for starting this thread. I have found the whole thread to be very helpful. I tried to watch the video this morning but am still not well enough to concentrate on it. Rolling Eyes

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