More Statin news

Eek! Especially as the links between Alzheimers, glucose and especially insulin become clearer and statins are widely prescribed as an antidote to the diet that raises glucose and insulin. Double whammy.

Statin use may increase risk for idiopathic inflammatory myositis

https://www.healio.com/family-medicine/cardiology/news/online/%7Bc3fca982-ad4a-48d1-885d-e20a18ba61e4%7D/statin-users-nearly-twice-as-likely-to-have-idiopathic-inflammatory-myositis-

hi guys, i am in a situation with statin and really don't know what to do, my cholesterol seems to go up and down like a yoyo, my latest is higher again, i had a long chat with the doctor over the phone who is very nice and i don't like to disagree with him because after all he's a doctor.

doctor: your cholesterol is high we may need to increase the statins

me: i aint taking the statins

doc: why not?

me: because i watched a you tube video called statin nation or something like that and lots of very clever sounding people suggested statins were crap

doc: theres as many studies saying they are good as there are saying they are bad, with your other cardio vascular risks being diabetic and having blood pressure you really should be taking the statins

me: ok ill start taking them

3 weeks later, i still haven't started them, i have taken them in the past but stopped, i didn't have any side effects

now i know all that we can't diagnose you on the internet, speak to your hcp stuff, but what the hell should i do in your opinions please? i am really not keen on them after everything i read but also don't want to have a bloody heart attack

my dad had diabetes. blood pressure and high cholesterol and had a heart attack at 67 he was however taking statins lol

thanks x

Hi Andy,
I think on the cholesterol front it all depends on what your HDL and Trigs are doing and the total LDL is not really a problem unless it's extremely high.

Not all low carb sites are anti statin in certain circumstances.
Statins have other effects in that they reduce arterial inflammation and thin the blood slightly.
I stopped taking them they seemed to give me unpleasant side effect.
regards
Derek

Agreed.

I just read this

Triglyceride to HDL Cholesterol Ratio and
Cardiovascular Events in Diabetics with Coronary
Artery Disease


http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.amjms.2017.03.032

one of many

I've also been following Dave Keto (Feldman)

http://cholesterolcode.com/

also on Twitter - he has shown just how much and how quickly LDL levels can change and be changed, which makes a single reading somewhat suspicious for basing lifetime medication on.

You could try taking the statin for a while, see what result it has and watch carefully for side effects, but the impression I get from the NNT and many studies is that their effects are minimal unless you have already had a heart attack and are male. Otherwise they may marginally change what you die of but not when, give or take a few days.

They use the Friedwald formula to calculate LDL in the UK and with very low trigs, mine are 0.8 it gives an LDL of 4.5 whereas the more accurate Iranian formula give a much more accurate reading when the Trigs are low (and high). By the other formula mine are 4.0.
Derek

Hi Andy

Agree with Derek you need to know your levels of HDL/LDL and trigs to determine your ratios, most on low carb find an improvement in cholesterol of course there are exceptions. On a personal note my HDL vastly improved and LDL only had small fluctuations either way whilst my trigs remain low but my total is high mainly due to the HDL

I had a terrible time on statins suffered most of the side effects listed including muscular cramps, night sweats, vivid dreams and many other problems,  of course that's just me others have no side effects but I do woder what will happen over the longer term 

At the end of the day Andy it's your choice whether to take statins or not what ever you decide I'm cool with that 

Thankyou

I will find out my numbers, I didn't collect them as my head was all a fuzz at last visit, I don't know what to do with the statins, this video which I wished I could remember the name of was pretty damning towards them and it seem to feature top clever people from the top clever places

Andy12345 wrote:Thankyou

I will find out my numbers, I didn't collect them as my head was all a fuzz at last visit, I don't know what to do with the statins, this video which I wished I could remember the name of was pretty damning towards them and it seem to feature top clever people from the top clever places

It is not an easy decision Andy and is really determined by your health situation balanced against side effects.
Having looked at some of the experts on lipids and keto diets by no means all of them have an anti statin message.

For me it's clear cut, I wouldnt take them because of side effects. However if I had high inflammation after being in keto for six months I would seriously consider a statin to reduce inflammation.

This is an overview of the cholesterol issue from a more scientific angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oydeTasQD0c

regards
Derek

Long birder wrote:They use the Friedwald formula to calculate LDL in the UK and with very low trigs, mine are 0.8 it gives an LDL of 4.5 whereas the more accurate Iranian formula give a much more accurate reading when the Trigs are low (and high).  By the other formula mine are 4.0.
Derek

The labs my GP used to use actually measured LDL, the result came out about halfway between Friedwald and Iranian, which was interesting.

Now she has to use a different lab so it is calculated - Friedwald. The nurses can only use the cut down test that gives "cholesterol" and a "ratio" and not trigs.

Frankly I no longer bother, my lipids became quite stable except for the effect of my thyroid on LDL. The all important trigs/HDL is 1 or less.

Of course as Dave Feldman's research has shown, the numbers may only be stable when you look, the LDL could be jumping around hugely between tests.

What I'd like to see would be insulin/c-peptide but that is not available.

Atorvastatin Causes Insulin Resistance and Increases Ambient Glycemia in Hypercholesterolemic Patients

http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/accj/55/12/1209.full.pdf

Gosh colour me surprised. Er, not.

I was remembering, I had a strange reaction to Atorvastatin and was switched to Simvastatin. In retrospect it was making me hypOglycemic, uncommon but known. I wonder if it was jacking up my BG and then causing too much insulin knocking it back down too far. Didn't have a glucometer in those days.

chris c wrote:Gosh colour me surprised. Er, not.

I was remembering, I had a strange reaction to Atorvastatin and was switched to Simvastatin. In retrospect it was making me hypOglycemic, uncommon but known. I wonder if it was jacking up my BG and then causing too much insulin knocking it back down too far. Didn't have a glucometer in those days.

Simvastatin was the first choice for many doctors because it was cheap due to being off patent, I believe Atorvastatin is getting more widely prescribed nowadays because that too is now off patent and supposedly has less side effects 

In those days they were both on patent but Simvastatin was still cheaper. I have to wonder if the guy was paid to prescribe Atorvastatin or if he just believed the hype.

I can't remember which is which now but some cross the blood-brain barrier and the others don't, which may be a reason for the differing side effects. Whatever, I doubt if I'll bother with them again. Love your LDL!

Statins for primary prevention of cardiovascular events and mortality in old and very old adults with and without type 2 diabetes: retrospective cohort study

https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3359

Great, I'll read that one later. They do seem to do some good things but not due to LDL lowering. I suspect doing other things that improve results without shutting down the entire mevalonate pathway may be even better.

If you want man boobs statins could be the way forward 

Statin medications and the risk of gynecomastia.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Case reports have suggested an increased risk of gynecomastia with HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors (ie, statins). A recent meta-analysis also found that statins decrease circulating testosterone levels in men. We investigated whether statin use was associated with an increased risk of gynecomastia.

DESIGN:
Case-control study.

PATIENTS:
A cohort of patients from a random sample of 9 053 240 US subjects from the PharMetrics Plus health claims database from 2006 to 2016 was created.

MEASUREMENTS:
New cases of gynecomastia requiring at least two ICD-9 codes were identified from the cohort and matched to 10 controls by follow-up time and age using density-based sampling. Rate ratios (RRs) for users of statins were computed using conditional logistic regression adjusting for alcoholic cirrhosis, hyperthyroidism, testicular cancer, Klinefelter syndrome, obesity, hypogonadism, hyperprolactinemia and use of spironolactone, ketoconazole, H2 receptor antagonists (H2 blockers), risperidone, testosterone and androgen deprivation therapy.

RESULTS:
Our cohort included 6147 cases of gynecomastia and 61 470 corresponding matched controls. The adjusted RR for current, recent and past statin use with respect to gynecomastia was 1.19 (1.04-1.36), 1.38 (1.15-1.65) and 1.20 (1.03-1.40), respectively.

CONCLUSIONS:
Statin use is associated with an increased risk of developing gynecomastia. Clinicians should be cognizant of this effect and educate patients accordingly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29923212

Oh good grief!

Actually I grew a cute pair of A cups a while ago. Then they went away again, I suspect my thyroid was involved.

I saw Michael Gove jogging on Have I Got News For You, I think his tits were bigger than Theresa May's.