Resistant Starch Update

Indy51 wrote:Very interesting link posted on the low carb diabetic blog today - apparently both Dr BG and Tim Tatertot are now backing away from raw potato starch because of possible liver side effects:

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.co.nz/2014/11/bifidobacteria-longum-roseburia-f.html?showComment=1415989673134#c2726818441465987004

Maybe someone should post that link up on the 'Free The Animal' blog for Richards attention!

Paul wrote:

Indy51 wrote:Very interesting link posted on the low carb diabetic blog today - apparently both Dr BG and Tim Tatertot are now backing away from raw potato starch because of possible liver side effects:

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.co.nz/2014/11/bifidobacteria-longum-roseburia-f.html?showComment=1415989673134#c2726818441465987004

Maybe someone should post that link up on the 'Free The Animal' blog for Richards attention!

That might be a waste of time the full comment that came in to the blog.

"Michael said...
"I hope to see you in comments at my blog when something pops up where you're interested to participate in discussions.

Richard Nikoley""

Hahaha. The last time I commented I was told to fuck off.

As for the resistant starch/raw potato starch, one only has to read this about Nikoley's pal:
http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.co.nz/2014/11/bifidobacteria-longum-roseburia-f.html?showComment=1415989673134#c2726818441465987004
So, if you want a 'bout of tender fatty liver', then remember to take your raw potato starch."

The problem is that all those small benefits are in very short term studies and none are made with that particular type of starch(Red Mill) that is not sold as RS. What is sold as RS is very expensive and none have the supposed high levels of the potato starch. The research on gut microbes is in his very infancy and most researchers in the field have to trumped their results to keep getting funding, so one has to be aware of the hype.

There is still no agreement of what a perfectly healthy gut flora is and if it even exist. So is too early to try to manipulated it to any particular composition. Eating a ton of any one particular RS it probably not good long term. You don't know what bacteria are you feeding and how will it affect the rest of gut flora balance. I think the best bet at least for now is to eat a wide variety of fibers as possible. For diabetics is mean a lot of vegetables, nuts, unsweetened chocolate, low carb yogurt & kefir, glucommanan, etc...

"The problem is that all those small benefits are in very short term studies and none are made with that particular type of starch(Red Mill) that is not sold as RS."

That stuff makes a very good safe glue for kids making paper models and toys. When I was a kid my mum used to mix up flour and water and I made toy soldiers hats and paper swords and things. As for reducing BG numbers big time, forget it.

Hmm... this is disturbing news (if it is really news).

For carb intolerant getting significant sources of RS from natural foods is difficult because of the carbs that come along with the RS. Bob's Red Mill PS seems ideal (cheap, no direct impact on BG), but if it causes fatty liver, then what are our other choices?

DR. B G at Animal Pharm has a new (today) post that answers the part of what to eat if you're not carb intolerant.

He says in the comments: "Consider a vast collection of dietary fiber to grow a diverse and disease free garden in the gut: --Small amounts of raw starch RS2 (if no vipers that eat RS2 in the upper gut, eg Klebsiella, Prevotella, Bacteroides, Fusobacteria etc) --cooked cooled/reheated starches (depending on ancestry) --high fiber plants (diverse and different colors, leaves, shoots, roots, etc) --fermented plants and roots."

So now my personal question is what can I tolerate? Up to now I am eating very low carb (~5 grams per meal). My numbers are pretty good so I have some leeway even though I really want to avoid BG over 100 mg/dl. And of course there is the hope that a better gut microbe will help to improve BG regulation.

For me, fermented foods sound the most promising for those of us who are carb intolerant because the fermenting process consumes carbohydrates leaving less to impact our BG. However it is quite clear that we are in uncharted waters and that we will need a lot more N=1 studies to help chart the waters. Hmm... I have far more questions than answers!

It also sounds like I now have a reason to my get gut microbe analyzed.

PS Note phrase "if no vipers that eat RS2 in the upper gut". This may explain the differences in reported results from taking raw PS.

OldTech;

There may be a reason why food have only small amounts of resistant starch per volume. There is no minimum daily requirement for RS. There is a recommendation for fiber on the diet of at least 25G, but there is no consensus on it. There are many type of fibers that diabetics can consume, most high starches food have very little fiber. There are also plenty of prebiotics and probiotics in food and supplements that a diabetic can use. There are also a lot of fermented food and fiber supplements that are diabetic friendly to increase amount of fiber and gut flora bacterias.

If you are doing fine with what you are doing for control don't stress about the little details. Keep experimenting see what is really important for BG control for YOU and don't stress over small details or that you are not following the exact recommendation of some internet blog.

Old Tech as Yoly said ..... "If you are doing fine with what you are doing for control don't stress about the little details. Keep experimenting see what is really important for BG control for YOU and don't stress over small details or that you are not following the exact recommendation of some internet blog."

I can only speak as a non diabetic who talks to, reads and lives with my husband Eddie a Type 2 diabetic  

But it must come down to what suits you the individual for good diabetes control. Some will only eat 5 carbs per day .....some 15 .......some more.

As many others say it is all about good control and you appear to have that good control.

All the best Jan

As I have been basing my meals around beans, pulses, lower carb root veg, etc., for the last two weeks I thought I would revisit this subject.

It seems that RS increases a Clostridium microbe in the colon that breaks the RS down into a form of carbohydrate. That in turn triggers another microbe to digest the carbohydrate and turn it into butyrate which feeds the cells in the colon keeping it healthy.

I am naturally suspicious of anything that is 'fractionated'. Whilst the RS found in food comes with essential nutrients, the refined RS doesn't. Maybe that could be why some people have had problems with it.

I know a lot of foods high in RS also have a lot of digestible carbohydrate, but it seems as though a slow change with small amounts may help in the long term.

Some people have used the refined RS for just long enough to bring their blood sugar down to normal range and have then just incorporated RS-rich foods into most meals instead.

Dr. Fuhrman's 'End of Diabetes' diet regime uses lots of vegetables and approx 2 cups of beans per day. Many people have reversed their diabetes on it, so maybe there is something to RS after all - but in whole food form, rather than supplement.

I found Tom Naughton's interview interesting....

http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2014/04/14/revisiting-resistant-starch-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-3248387