What diet do you want god to give you?

zand wrote:

Andy12345 wrote:please forgive me if im misunderstanding, if we are regressing, and if there were a power great enough to design us and every living cell on our planet, why would this power make us with a shelf life? why would it make us capable of such cruelty and make us capable of feeling such sadness, allow all the bad in the world? if there is a greater power, i dislike it, it has done an experiment where people suffer, ok there is such beauty and wonder and without it how would we know the bad stuff, but thats not good enough for me, for this power to let one single innocent child suffer when it would clearly have the power to prevent it, it is a disgrace, and if im wrong, its its fault

Well I can't speak for other religions, but as for the Bible.......He didn't create us with a shelf life.  That came in when Eve and the snake twisted God's words in the garden of Eden.  Now come on guys,  have you never known a woman manipulate a situation to get what she wants by twisting your words around? God said "If you eat from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then you will surely die"  So that's why we die.  And that's why there's evil in the world; God gave them free will and they disobeyed Him.  So it's man who is causing innocent children to suffer, not God.  So God created a perfect world and we messed it up.

Of course the next logical stumbling block to faith is creationism itself.  If you believe what the Bible says then I believe you need to accept it all, not use it as a pick and mix text book.  So scientists say the earth has been around for billions of years and creationists say it's only a few thousand.  I have heard this explained like this.....

If you for a moment accept that God did make Adam from dust, then one second he didn't exist and the next second he did.  He was made 'man' and therefore appeared fully mature at around 25 years old, when in fact he was only a second old.  He was made fully formed.  It's the same with the earth.  It was made fully formed with the appearance of existence for billions of years when it was in fact brand new.

Do I believe all this?  Not sure, probably not anymore, but you can't say you don't believe in something if you haven't explored the possibilities fully.  Anyone who knows me at all will know my view of 'science'.  Our increasing scientific knowledge is always making what was once accepted as fact into fiction.  

seriously? any of that seems reasonable? how would explore the possibilities fully of god making adam from dust? or god making the earth fully formed billions of years old? for what reason would he do either? was he short of time so thought bugger all that evolution stuff, lets start here, and for what reason if he were there and it meant good things for us to believe in him would he not float down from the sky, perform a few miracles and make believers of us all? and because adam did something all those years ago, that child was born deaf and blind? hmmmm well that sucks as a reason for doing that me thinks, oh no wait it can't suck, he's perfect, well if someone was able to prevent a person suffering and decided not to, they certainly would not be worshipped by me

i can only accept that the planet and universe is a living thing, all part of the cosmic milkshake, we are all connected, the people, animals plants and dirt, we should try to co exist with people and nature, if there is a central intelligence, i don't believe it could be in the form of man, i believe it could be in the form of an energy, that isn't conscious of anything other than exists and maybe not even that, and is certainly not in control, we are a product of accidental chemical reactions

i wished they hadn't, but someone showed me a youtube video yesterday of these IS nutters killing these blokes they had pulled over in their car, they shot them for what reason i don't know but no god would allow that had they the power to stop it, of that i am sure, therefore if there is a god he is powerless and just a spectator, so for me it follows that if there was an almighty power capable of such wondrous things, why would they become powerless?

this is all just my way of thinking, so i suppose ill find out if i was right or wrong when I'm either being eaten by worms of roasting on the spit

Lol Andy, I reckon it'll be the worms for both of us! Did I say it was reasonable? I was just answering your questions from the standpoint of the only religion I know enough about to be able to form a point of view.

then i hope i go first and then worms are too full to want you

No chance, (well I hope not) I'm a lot older than you!

I wrote this one last night but didn't manage to post it before my router shut down for the night.

It's been covered, but this is my take....

Ah yes, but the thing is, we weren't created like this. We're only in this mess because our esteemed ancestors decided to pull the plug on our Creator. The way I understand it is, humankind was created perfect with the ability to live forever.

However, because they decided they could do a better job of things than their Creator they chose the path of independence. The problem then was that because they were no longer plugged in to the source of life, and the Creator's knowledge and wisdom, they had to find their own way.

Perfect everlasting life was no longer available, and death was the outcome. In many ways, although death is hard to cope with and is something we can never accept because we were never meant to die, it is also a protection. How? Because life is hard enough with the likes of Hitler and Pol Pot around with a limited lifespan. What the heck would things be like if they could have lived forever???

It is widely acknowledged that if people properly followed the teachings of Christ the World would be a much happier place. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is one of, if not the most profound principle ever made. As Ghandi apparently stated, if all men followed it we could solve not only our own problems but those of the whole World. If the choices people made were based on love rather than hatred, jealousy, selfishness, etc., things would be very different.

There is an extreme amount of suffering in this World. It is getting worse every day. But why blame God for it? Much of the suffering is man-made. War, famine, greed, hatred. Genes are out of control due to malnutrition, environmental pollution, corruption and greed, poor food choices, etc. Mutations and freak issues happen because we are no longer perfect, yet even in imperfection in the main our bodies are still pretty awesome things and are still always trying to heal despite what is thrown at them. But whether the suffering is at our own hands or is out of our control, we still can't blame God. If you had a son and, for his protection taught him certain principles, would it be your fault if he ignored your loving advice and made grave mistakes as a result?

If you were a tutor and a student challenged your teaching as wrong, you have two options. You either boot him out of your class, or you give him the chalk and ask him to prove it. The problem with booting him out of the class is that the rest of the class would then wonder whether he was right. Giving him the chalk would settle the issue once and for all. God handed us the chalk.

We've had thousands of years to prove we can make a good job of ruling ourselves and all we've done is prove we can't. Yes, it's been a long time, but no one can turn around and say 'we didn't have long enough'! God isn't doing anything because He currently is not ruling us. The Bible says that Satan is the 'god of this system of things'. He is ruling this world at the moment, and humankind is letting him. Is it any wonder there is so much anger and hatred in the World when there is such a malevolent spirit pulling the strings?

Many say, if there's a God, why doesn't he stop all the suffering? Well he is going to. The Creator is going to put it right and bring us and the Earth back to perfection and full life. Jesus gave us signs that would mark the conclusion of this system and a new beginning. We can choose to pay attention or we can choose to ignore it. Freedom of choice is a gift. We can use it wisely or not.

I sometimes liken it to, if you were on the Titanic and someone knocked on your door and said this incredible state of the art unsinkable ship was sinking, would you tell them to get lost, or would you go and find out? When you discovered it was sinking would you go and find a lifeboat? Would you get in it, or go down with the ship? What a dilemma.

We are living in momentous times, when many prophecies that relate to that conclusion are being and are about to be fulfilled. Something wonderful is coming.

Personally, I really don't want to miss the boat.

If I turn out to be wrong then everything will carry on as it is, I will carry on getting old and sick and I will die and be forgotten. If I'm right then I have everlasting perfect life full of health and happiness in a beautiful restored Earth to look forward to, not to mention finally being able to learn and understand properly how this Earth and the elements work from the One who created it all.

I have nothing to lose.....

You certainly have nothing to lose and your theory reads good, possibly even too good. I like your analogy of the 2 choices as well. Throw out of class or prove it. Trouble is, I've yet to see proof either way which makes subjects like this so frustrating. I really wish I could be shown evidence, I'd love to believe in a creator or some form of "God".

zand wrote:Yes Eddie I agree with your sentiments here.  'Religion', (and like you I mean all religions) doesn't always have a lot to do with God, it's more about manmade rules and dogma.  You can have faith in God without being religious.  It's the 'rules' and interpretation of the rules that cause the wars and hatred and suffering, not true faith in God.  Faith is a personal thing, religion is mass indoctrination.

Wise words Zand !

AliB wrote:I wrote this one last night but didn't manage to post it before my router shut down for the night.

It's been covered, but this is my take....

Ah yes, but the thing is, we weren't created like this.  We're only in this mess because our esteemed ancestors decided to pull the plug on our Creator.  The way I understand it is, humankind was created perfect with the ability to live forever.

However, because they decided they could do a better job of things than their Creator they chose the path of independence.  The problem then was that because they were no longer plugged in to the source of life, and the Creator's knowledge and wisdom, they had to find their own way.  

Perfect everlasting life was no longer available, and death was the outcome.  In many ways, although death is hard to cope with and is something we can never accept because we were never meant to die, it is also a protection.  How?  Because life is hard enough with the likes of Hitler and Pol Pot around with a limited lifespan.  What the heck would things be like if they could have lived forever???

It is widely acknowledged that if people properly followed the teachings of Christ the World would be a much happier place.  'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is one of, if not the most profound principle ever made.  As Ghandi apparently stated, if all men followed it we could solve not only our own problems but those of the whole World.  If the choices people made were based on love rather than hatred, jealousy, selfishness, etc., things would be very different.

There is an extreme amount of suffering in this World.  It is getting worse every day.  But why blame God for it?  Much of the suffering is man-made.  War, famine, greed, hatred.  Genes are out of control due to malnutrition, environmental pollution, corruption and greed, poor food choices, etc. Mutations and freak issues happen because we are no longer perfect, yet even in imperfection in the main our bodies are still pretty awesome things and are still always trying to heal despite what is thrown at them. But whether the suffering is at our own hands or is out of our control, we still can't blame God.  If you had a son and, for his protection taught him certain principles, would it be your fault if he ignored your loving advice and made grave mistakes as a result?

If you were a tutor and a student challenged your teaching as wrong, you have two options.  You either boot him out of your class, or you give him the chalk and ask him to prove it.  The problem with booting him out of the class is that the rest of the class would then wonder whether he was right.  Giving him the chalk would settle the issue once and for all.  God handed us the chalk.

We've had thousands of years to prove we can make a good job of ruling ourselves and all we've done is prove we can't.  Yes, it's been a long time, but no one can turn around and say 'we didn't have long enough'!  God isn't doing anything because He currently is not ruling us.  The Bible says that Satan is the 'god of this system of things'.  He is ruling this world at the moment, and humankind is letting him.  Is it any wonder there is so much anger and hatred in the World when there is such a malevolent spirit pulling the strings?

Many say, if there's a God, why doesn't he stop all the suffering?  Well he is going to.  The Creator is going to put it right and bring us and the Earth back to perfection and full life.  Jesus gave us signs that would mark the conclusion of this system and a new beginning.  We can choose to pay attention or we can choose to ignore it.  Freedom of choice is a gift.  We can use it wisely or not.  

I sometimes liken it to, if you were on the Titanic and someone knocked on your door and said this incredible state of the art unsinkable ship was sinking, would you tell them to get lost, or would you go and find out?  When you discovered it was sinking would you go and find a lifeboat?  Would you get in it, or go down with the ship?  What a dilemma.    

We are living in momentous times, when many prophecies that relate to that conclusion are being and are about to be fulfilled.  Something wonderful is coming.

Personally, I really don't want to miss the boat.

If I turn out to be wrong then everything will carry on as it is, I will carry on getting old and sick and I will die and be forgotten.  If I'm right then I have everlasting perfect life full of health and happiness in a beautiful restored Earth to look forward to, not to mention finally being able to learn and understand properly how this Earth and the elements work from the One who created it all.

I have nothing to lose.....

that is indeed a lovely vision of things, and lovely outlook, im jealous! it is a brilliant saying "do un to others" i do live by many cristian principles, i was a born again christian for 2 hours 20 years ago, billy graham converted me believe it or not, but thats another story, if i dont have faith in god, what should i do? read the bible? go to church? then if i dont have faith in god? if i werent an atheist but just couldnt bring myself to believe, according to the bible i go to hell? i could spend my life doing only good and still go to hell? my apprentaship mentor was a minister and we talked about it alot, ive also had hugely intense discussions with a good friend who is devout catholic and the answer is always the same, yes unless you ask for forgiveness, you go to hell lol charming, you dont have a choice weather you believe or not, who wouldnt want to believe they had a chance to go on to a better place?

Andy fear not, if there is a God I am sure he will cut a nutter like you some slack. As for me, I kinda doubt it. I was made for the other place.

Eddie

There is no such place as the hell that Dantes portrayed. There is heaven, and there is Earth.

Despite what Catholicism believes, hell is not a place of fiery torment. The word 'hell' means the grave.

Do you really think a loving God would torment people forever in a fiery furnace?

That is just one of the crazy beliefs that makes God out to be a vengeful, malevolent being.

They have taken the illustration Jesus gave of the rich man and 'Lazarus' that was designed to portray the relationship between the haughty priests and the common people they looked down on and turned it into 'reality'.

They have confused hell with the fires of Gehenna - a place outside Jerusalem that was used as a dump and where the bodies of those who were not worthy of burial would be 'cremated'. The fire never went out, but those put in it were already dead......

so would you believe that, a person could spend their whole life doing work for good, being a lovely person and never hurting anyone, living by cristian values and being an all round good guy but didnt believe in god and didnt repent of their death bed will get into heaven?

Zand, you are right about mass indoctrination. Indoctrination suggests 'blind faith'.

Faith should never be blind. We should question, and reason, and not accept without checking it out.

Religion has done more to damage humankind's relationship with God than anything else on Earth. Even Jesus condemned the religious leaders of his day for being hypocrites and 'lording it over their flocks'. They would 'strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel' with their oppressive rules that had no scriptural foundation. They called the common people 'Amharets' meaning 'people of the dirt'.

Just as back then, many religious teachings of today have absolutely no foundation in the scriptures. They have been twisted or confused. When you question them and really analyse and reason on them, they often make no sense at all.

Where do religious leaders get their pompous garb from? Nowhere in the Bible does it say a Christian minister needs to wear anything different to anyone else. Jesus wore ordinary clothing. He was respected not for his 'position' but for his wonderful teachings.

I am not a Christian , and am very anti " churchianity" as I feel that has caused more wars and personal repression over the years than anything else . Frankly, I don't care what others believe, as long as their beliefs are not rammed down mine or others throats, it makes that person a better person and doesn't scare the horses 

Andy -  good question ! There are countless millions in the world who do not believe in the Christian god, are polytheists, atheists or animistic who generally live a good life despite not having a belief that they will be rewarded in a heaven of some kind for being so. No one has actually come back and said such a place exists anyway   ( Unless you believe in Doris Stokes et al...)

I have always believed that organised religion of the monotheistic varieties use heaven and hell as the carrot and the stick of control ( Blame the nuns for my views, LOL )

I think that all people can do better by following the words of the Great Bill and Ted : " Be good to one another " 

Signy

I can't answer that one Andy, only God knows that one.  All I would say is that there is a scripture - can't locate it at present, that in essence says, if you are doing good, why expect praise?   It is no more than you should be doing.

Doing good is not a pass key.  Developing a relationship with God and having a desire to follow his standards and requirements is a better guarantee.  Doing good should not take extra effort because we should be doing it anyway. Developing a relationship with God takes some effort and sacrifice. He doesn't ask for more than we can give. He doesn't demand anything from us.

God doesn't need us, but he loves us and wants us to love him in return. You can't love someone you don't know. So building a relationship with God means learning about him. So many people out there shun or refuse to believe in God. They only know odd, often wrong, snippets about him. You can't build a relationship on snippets, not even with another human.

and party on dude!

AliB Do you mean Matthew 6:1 ?

"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

hmmm he dosent demand anything from us.... except the biggest leap of faith? and our love? and worship? and to live by his rules? and follow his teachings? lol

im not trying to argue with you, its great you have the comfort

i just wished i could understand yours and others mentallity, religeon is so huge and its frustrating that i dont get it, so i look for answers but never get them

When the Archbishop of Canterbury says he's not sure of his faith or the Bible and doesn't understand why there is so much suffering in the World, is it any wonder the Church is falling apart?

The Bible is very clear on why there is so much suffering and how God will put it right.

Blind guides......

Zand, that's a good scripture but not the one I was thinking of. Will look later.

Andy, he doesn't demand or force anything on us. It has to come from us, we have to make the first move.

Maybe you haven't found it either because you aren't really that committed, or because you've been looking in the wrong place....

I was just getting into this and my router will switch off for the night in a few minutes..... :0(

And why I'm leaving] the forum.

JohnWilson wrote:And why I'm leaving] the forum.  

huh?

JohnWilson wrote:And why I'm leaving] the forum.  

Um Why?

WALOB!! @AliB