Insulin an interesting article.............

My last attempt to post this interesting article, three attempts already failed. Here goes,


http://www.apinchofhealth.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2033-Insulin-and-Its-Metabolic-Effects/?postID=175047&highlight=Insulin#post175047


Scroll up-page to see this long article.

Pasha wrote:My last attempt to post this interesting article, three attempts already failed. Here goes,


http://www.apinchofhealth.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2033-Insulin-and-Its-Metabolic-Effects/?postID=175047&highlight=Insulin#post175047


Scroll up-page to see this long article.

What a read Pasha a must read for everyone. So many believe insulin is a get out of jail free card. Yes we all need insulin, but it can be a bigger killer (I am not referring to serious hypos) as highly elevated blood glucose numbers, maybe worse.

At the risk of people groaning, I can't say I blame them sometimes, check this out. Some great information and so highly relevant for type two diabetics, but alas far too much truth was mentioned, and the thread was locked. Evidently truth and very sound information is tantamount to scaremongering.

Link to information Recent insulin study http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/recent-insulin-study.50729/

OK, you don't have to tell me, already got me coat on.

Insulin: Potential Negative Consequences of Early Routine Use in Patients With Type 2 Diabetes

Some extracts from the full paper.

It would seem logical that the ideal treatment for type 2 diabetes should be early and continuing insulin therapy. Unfortunately, there are several characteristics of insulin treatment and insulin action in type 2 diabetes that limit the usefulness of insulin treatment and that suggest that chronic insulin therapy is best used in the later stages of diabetes when there is an absolute deficiency of insulin.

Starting insulin therapy early in the course of chronic treatment of patients with type 2 diabetes would imply that there are unique benefits to insulin treatment. As addressed above, there is little evidence to support such a view. Insulin treatment is neither durable in maintaining glycemic control nor is unique in preserving β-cells. Better clinical outcomes than those that occur with other antihyperglycemic regimens have not been shown. The downside of insulin therapy is the need to increase the dose and the regimen complexity with time, the increase in severe hypoglycemia, and the potential increase in mortality as well as the potential increased risk for specific cancers.

Weight gain accompanies insulin treatment. The magnitude of the weight gain is influenced by the level of the initial glycemic control, the treatment glycemic control achieved, the duration of insulin therapy, the insulin regimen used, and which combination of oral agents are concomitantly used For example, in a study normalizing the HbA1c during 6 months of intensive multiple-dose insulin therapy, the mean weight gain was 8.7 kg

For the vast majority of patients with type 2 diabetes, insulin therapy is best reserved until other therapies can no longer maintain the target glycemic goals.

Those on Metformin therapy had the lowest death rates, so that group was used as the reference.

In terms of primary outcome—that is, consideration of first adverse events only:

Sulfonylurea therapy resulted in patients being 1.4 times more likely to suffer one of these outcomes.

A combination of Metformin and Insulin resulted in 1.3 times greater risk.

Insulin therapy alone resulted in 1.8 times greater risk.

Those considered to be at greater risk because of glycosylated hemoglobin had as much as 2.2 times greater risk with Insulin therapy alone. When considering any of these events happening, whether they were the first event or a subsequent one, the results were even more dramatic:

Insulin monotherapy resulted in:
2.0 times more myocardial infarctions.

1.7 time more major adverse cardiac events

1.4 time more strokes

3.5 times more renal complications

2.1 time more neuropathy

1.2 times more eye complications

1.4 times more cancer

2.2 times more deaths

Full paper here http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S225.full

"and the thread was locked. Evidently truth and very sound information is tantamount to scaremongering."

I rest my case.

I trust this article is going on the blog, Eddie

Indy51 wrote:I trust this article is going on the blog, Eddie

Yes I will post up the paper again later. This is part of what I said at the time. BTW That shit stirring SOB called fatbird was me, swiftly banned for the umpteenth time.

DCUK The truth, the whole truth anything but the truth !

Recently the management at diabetes.co.uk sent out an email to it’s members. The usual marketing memo plus enough information to make the communique half way legit, including an item that caught a members eye. This was a new study regarding insulin and type two diabetics. Forum member academicdiabetic started a thread called ‘recent insulin study’. The thread got off to a cracking start, lot’s of comment and further studies posted, confirming insulin was not a get out of jail free card for type two diabetics, and serious complications such as three times the mortality rates in type two insulin users, compared to metformin only users.

As so often with type two threads on the forum, type one diabetics quickly waded in together with a few lowcarb antis and carboholics. They could see where this thread was going, they had shut down countless threads that cast aspersions on medication covering high carb consumption, they know full well a low carb type two diabetic rarely ends up on insulin, thereby avoiding the grim conclusions the scientific studies had highlighted.

Link to blog post here http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/dcuk-truth-truth-anything-but-truth.html

Ah...FatBird! What a lady!! certainly ruffled a few feathers with the low carb anti's!! I seem to remember one who commented at the blog as 'Anon' (No surprises there eh!) commented that they wished that 'FatBird' would end up on an oven tray surrounded by potatoes or something!

Last post regarding the flog for awhile I promise. Some members will remember Pneu. He was only a very young man but is extremely bright. He was one of the most knowledgeable diabetics I have ever known, and I have met more than a few. He was a low carbing type one holding BG numbers in the fours. He only went on an insulin pump to help with concerns over BG numbers when sleeping. He was a fair guy and very even handed, in short an excellent mod. BTW his Father is a diabetic and I had a few run ins with him, so Pneu was no great fan of me. He tried to resign and posted on the flog, swiftly deleted. He came over to our blog to state his case, the only way his voice could be heard.

Tonight I have asked that my forum account be removed from DCUK.

I can no longer be a member let alone a moderator of a forum whose administration team have consistently shown poor management, questionable moral judgement and a lack of any sort of thought through decision making.. We have a forum that is being administrated by two young adults who lack the appropriate skill set / experience to act decisively.  

DCUK have members that are having to resort to legal action against other members to stop bullying and personal attacks and the administration team have done nothing.. DCUK have a moderator (Daisy) who has been implicated by multiple users as actively targeting them and directing them to ABC Diabetes so that they can be caught up and manipulated.. the end result of which was a terminally ill man being harassed to his death bed and other members seeking legal advice re: DCUK; what have they done? NOTHING.. DCUK have an administration team that has totally lost contact with the day to day feeling of general forum members; promoting a moderation approach that stifles meaningful discussion and treats members like children... two examples today where the overwhelming feeling in the thread was totally ignored and the threads moderated / closed.

Today DCUK banned / threaten certain members who are active contributors with previous good behaviour for doing nothing but voicing a harsh yet TRUTHFUL fact that diabetes does kill... members who have actively support said community over the past six months... the sort of members that DCUK should be protecting and nurturing in order to ensure a strong community going forward. If contributors can't tell the truth, if posts are removed or edited for presenting the harsh yet frank reality of diabetes and life then what is the point of a discussion forum? If people can't have a view then why should they bother? why don't we just redirect the website to DUK...

Anyway that's me done with DCUK

Best Regards To All

Pneu

As posted here November 2012  http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/tonight-i-have-asked-that-my-forum.html

The same applied to Mo the mod here.

DCUK The forum loses the best mod in years ! Their loss our gain. http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/dcuk-forum-loses-best-mod-in-years.html

Without a shadow of a doubt, the best DCUK forum mod in years has done a Capt. Oates. While other mods only seemed to surface on Halloween, or add to their post count on the word games, Mo put in a massive amount of time. Always fair and even handed, never taking sides and always a friendly welcome for the newbies. This has been the pattern over the years, the best mods walk time and time again, who will forget Pneu, the most knowledgeable mod they have had in years, forced to resign on this very blog. I have one keen sense of smell and I am smelling 4lb of condemned veal. When will the dullards that run the joint wake up ?

Thsi ties in neatly with the Alzheimers article, hyperinsulinemia produces high insulin levels in the brain which is a known factor in the Alzheimers "epidemic" - the sort of level which comes from a high carb diet on top of insulin resistance is enough.

The more research I read the more I see J curves - there's an anatomically correct quantity of all sorts of things and too low or too high levels cause harm. Sufficient insulin is a necessity, more than that is a danger.

chris c wrote:Thsi ties in neatly with the Alzheimers article, hyperinsulinemia produces high insulin levels in the brain which is a known factor in the Alzheimers "epidemic" - the sort of level which comes from a high carb diet on top of insulin resistance is enough.

The more research I read the more I see J curves - there's an anatomically correct quantity of all sorts of things and too low or too high levels cause harm. Sufficient insulin is a necessity, more than that is a danger.

Insulin is often referred to by biochemists as the fat building hormone. It is also the ageing hormone. Have a Goggle around and see what insulin can do. A diabetes expert once said to me "If I had my way every bottle of insulin would have a skull and crossbones poison label on it."

One thing that put me off the Ron Rosedale article a bit was his championing of chromium.

It's yet another J curve thing - essential in small quantities but surprisingly toxic in overdose. I recall some anecdotal results that many people found it did nothing and a few had good results, which suggests it only "works" if you are deficient in the first place.