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    Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

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    Jan1
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    Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Jan1 on Wed Apr 15 2015, 21:42

    I don't think it's been posted on the Forum yet?

    Dr Jason Fung has just written a very interesting article about fasting:

    " Fasting is a time tested and ancient tradition.  It has been used not only for weight loss, but to improve concentration, extend life, prevent Alzheimers, prevent insulin resistance and even reverse the entire aging process.  There is much to talk about here so we begin a new subsection “Fasting”.

    There is nothing new, except what has been forgotten – Marie Antoinette

    So the forgotten question of weight loss is “When should we eat?” We don’t ignore the question of frequency anywhere else. Falling from a building 1000 feet off the ground once will likely kill us. But is this the same as falling from a 1-foot wall 1000 times? Absolutely not. Yet the total distance fallen is still 1000 feet. "

    All foods will increase insulin levels to some degree. Eating the proper foods will prevent high levels, but won’t do much to lower levels. Some foods that are better than others, but all foods still increase insulin. The key to prevention of resistance is to periodically sustain very low levels of insulin. If all foods raise insulin, then the only answer is the complete voluntary abstinence of food. The answer we are looking for is, in a word, fasting.

    Fasting

    The answer to this vexing problem lies not in the latest and greatest diet trend, but in the tried and true. Instead of searching for some exotic, never-before-tried diet miracle, we should focus on ancient healing traditions of the past. The waaaayyyy past. Fasting is one of the most ancient healing traditions in human history. This solution has been practiced by virtually every culture and religion on earth.

    Whenever fasting is mentioned, there is always the same eye-rolling response. Starvation? That’s the answer? No. Fasting is completely different beast. Starvation is the involuntary absence of food. It is neither deliberate, nor controlled. Starving people have no idea when and where their next meal will come from. Fasting, on the other hand is the voluntary withholding of food for spiritual, health, or other reasons. It is the difference between suicide and dying of old age. The two terms should never be confused with each other. Fasting may be done for any period of time, from a few hours to months on end. In a sense, fasting is part of everyday life. The term ‘break fast’ is the meal that breaks the fast – which is done daily.

    Fasting is one of the most ancient and widespread healing traditions in the world. Hippocrates of Cos (c 460 – c370 BC) is widely considered the father of modern medicine. Among the treatments that he prescribed and championed was the practice of fasting, and the consumption of apple cider vinegar."

    Read more of this interesting article here:

    https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-a-history-part-i/

    All the best Jan
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by beardie on Wed Apr 15 2015, 21:51

    Is there any actual evidence for fasting being healthy Jan?
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by graham64 on Wed Apr 15 2015, 22:42

    Just put up a new article from Jason Fung on the blog


    Follow the research money: why some doctors betray patients’ trust on diet

    http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.co.uk/


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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Indy51 on Thu Apr 16 2015, 05:54

    Calorie restriction (which includes fasting) has many health benefits according to many health experts. Dr Fung is having great success with his diabetes patients following a variety of intermittent fasting regimes.

    An article about the benefits:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/inspire-me/67744102/fasting-could-help-us-cope-with-a-number-of-diseases


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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by mo1905 on Thu Apr 16 2015, 11:04

    Is the intermittent fasting benefit due to weight loss, detox or something else ? What I mean is, would you get the same benefit from a calorific restricted diet 7 days a week or not ? I know historically, humans had a fasting diet forced on them as they we not always certain when next meal would appear. Is this still the case now ? I know the 5:2 diet has worked well for many so perhaps yes ?


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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Eddie on Thu Apr 16 2015, 12:09

    The reason I am negative about intermittent fasting, and the Newcastle diet etc etc, is they are either difficult for most people or only temporary situations. Almost all diets fail most people because they cannot stick to the diet long term. Low carb works and most importantly keeps on working because it is very easy to stick to long term, i.e. for life.

    I do not believe the muppets that say they tried this or that diet and can go back to eating a high (by our standards) carb diet, and hold good BG numbers, it just does not work. So, why mess around with methods that are not permanent. Get on the low carb case fast, and most find it works very well, as reported here and all over the internet, then stick with it 24/7 for life. I have never heard of any other method that truly works, but so many would kid us otherwise. You only have to look at the NHS audited stats to see how most diabetics are doing.

    A blog post I made some years ago, the latest stats are just as bad.

    No progress is being made in the fight against serious complications !
    If you check out the NHS stats you see no progress has been made in the fight against serious complications, safer HbA1c numbers and life expectancy for diabetics. The new expensive drugs and healthcare professionals and dietitions have got nowhere, in fact the situation is getting worse. Diabetics requiring kidney dialysis is going up steeply.

    NHS Statistics for 2008 2009:
    Percentage of Type 1 diabetics with HbA1c greater than 7.5 per cent = 71.4 per cent.
    Percentage of Type 2 diabetics with HbA1c greater than 7.5 per cent = 33.4 per cent.
    Percentage of Type 1 diabetics with HbA1c greater than 10.0 per cent = 33.6 per cent.
    Percentage of Type 2 diabetics with HbA1c greater than 10.0 per cent = 14.3 per cent.
    These results are very similar to those found in 2006 – 2007 and 2007 – 2008.

    The latest NHS stats prove 93% of type one diabetics fail to get to a safe HbA1c number of 6.5 in old money, and 6.5 is hardly optimal.

    Check out the link below it will take you to the NHS Institute for Innovation and Improvement. Check out the dietary recommendations for type two diabetics. The diet is the reason for nil progress !
     
    "Daily food intake - no clear formula for dietary composition, aim to make changes that approach following recommendations"

    Total carbohydrate - 45-60% of energy intake  or 45-65% of energy intake
    protein - less than 1g/kg per body weight  
    total fat - less than 35% of energy intake
    saturated and trans-unsaturated fat (hydrogenated vegetable oils in manufactured foods, such as pies, pastry, biscuits, cake) - less than 10% of energy intake "

    I just checked the link to the above recommendations "The Direct Access service is no longer available." Maybe as with the BDA they have removed their grim dietary recommendations because they have seen the writing on the wall.


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Jan1 on Thu Apr 16 2015, 14:10

    @beardie wrote:Is there any actual evidence for fasting being healthy Jan?

    Hi Beardie - I haven't ignored your question, but think others have come into the conversation with added links and views for you to read. I believe I am right in saying that Dillinger may have tried the 5:2 plan, so he may well comment later too. (With apologies to Dillinger if my memory isn't right!)

    Take Care

    All the best Jan

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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Sarah on Fri Apr 17 2015, 16:42

    Fasting lowers insulin resistance and certainly lowered my creeping numbers, including morning ones. I don't do 5:2 but follow Dr Fung's method. As Loose Cannon says it isn't a 'get out of diabetic jail free card', but giving the body a rest from food can be helpful for other reasons as explained on his website. Some of teh longest leving healthiest people are also spartan eaters. Fasting is a part of several cultures with no untoward effects, quite the opposite.

    Sarah
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Eddie on Fri Apr 17 2015, 17:10

    @Sarah wrote:Fasting lowers insulin resistance and certainly lowered my creeping numbers, including morning ones. I don't do 5:2 but follow Dr Fung's method. As Loose Cannon says it isn't a 'get out of diabetic jail free card', but giving the body a rest from food can be helpful for other reasons as explained on his website. Some of teh longest leving healthiest people are also spartan eaters. Fasting is a part of several cultures with no untoward effects, quite the opposite.

    Sarah

    One thing is for sure beyond all doubt, however a type two controls their diabetes is cool, and if they can do it with nil or minimal meds so much the better. So many type two meds are either useless or highly dangerous.


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !

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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Sarah on Fri Apr 17 2015, 17:22

    Agreed, avoid meds at all costs if possible.
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Eddie on Fri Apr 17 2015, 17:29

    In the US big pharma has paid out $billions to victims of type two meds and $billions in fines for withholding information, fraud and bribery and corruption. How long before a massive class action case against them in the UK. How long before a massive class action for the terrible dietary advice given to most diabetics. As Dr. Malcolm Kendrick said some years ago.

    “The reality is that over the years, and around the world we have killed literally millions of diabetics by advising them to eat a high-carb diet and avoid fats. Only now is it being recognised that previous advice was and remains useless, dangerous and scientifically illiterate”

    The list of medical professionals who agree with Malcolm gets longer by the day.


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by OldTech on Fri Apr 17 2015, 17:53

    It took about 5 months of restricting my low carb meals to brunch and dinner with no snacks for me to see a remarkable change in my blood glucose. It has now been another 4 months and my blood glucose remains quite stable. After a meal my blood glucose barely changes from before the meal. For example, last night my 1 hour postprandial was 79 mg/dl (4.38 mmol/l).

    I am not sure that it was the restricted meals that are responsible, but now that I have stable blood glucose I am not making any changes any time soon.
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by mo1905 on Fri Apr 17 2015, 17:58

    4.3 an hour after eating is amazing control. Are they regular numbers or a one off ?


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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by OldTech on Fri Apr 17 2015, 18:17

    My current average for postprandial is 4.7. I have only seen spikes to around 5.5 6 times in the last 3 months. As I said it is amazing constant.
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Jan1 on Fri Apr 17 2015, 18:27

    OldTech - your numbers are AMAZING - they may be better than mine and I'm not a diabetic.  Exclamation

    Seriously well done and as you say " but now that I have stable blood glucose I am not making any changes any time soon."

    All the best Jan
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by mo1905 on Fri Apr 17 2015, 18:41

    @OldTech wrote:My current average for postprandial is 4.7. I have only seen spikes to around 5.5 6 times in the last 3 months. As I said it is amazing constant.

    You're my hero :-)


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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Paul1976 on Fri Apr 17 2015, 18:42

    @OldTech wrote:My current average for postprandial is 4.7. I have only seen spikes to around 5.5 6 times in the last 3 months. As I said it is amazing constant.

    clap clap Amazing results!! Do your health care professionals ever ask how you get such good numbers? If not,they should as they might learn something! Ketosis is awesome! Smile


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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by OldTech on Fri Apr 17 2015, 19:28

    @Paul1976 wrote:Do your health care professionals ever ask how you get such good numbers?

    No and I now try to avoid them. My doctor at my last regular appointment was very upset that I stopped taking my statin. I found the experience upsetting. I had just gotten an A1c of 4.7 and all he said was 'good' and then again went into his speal of why I needed to be on statins. I suspect that he would have been even more upset if I had told him that I was eating a ketogentic diet.
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Paul1976 on Fri Apr 17 2015, 19:33

    It's so frustrating isn't it!! banghead We really do have to be our own doctors these days as some of these HCP's seem hell bent on sending us on a one way ticket to the coroner! No


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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Indy51 on Sat Apr 18 2015, 05:03

    The latest post in Dr Fung's series on Fasting is up:

    https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Jan1 on Sat Apr 18 2015, 17:46

    Thanks for the link Indy ....... I've copied the first part of the article below  Smile

    There are many misconceptions about fasting.  It is useful to review the physiology of what happens to our body when we eat nothing.

    Physiology

    Glucose and fat are the body’s main sources of energy. If glucose is not available, then the body will adjust by using fat, without any detrimental health effects. This is simply a natural part of life. Periods of low food availability have always been a part of human history. Mechanisms have evolved to adapt to this fact of Paleolithic life. The transition from the fed state to the fasted state occurs in several stages.

    1. Feeding – During meals, insulin levels are raised. This allows uptake of glucose into tissues such as the muscle or brain to be used directly for energy. Excess glucose is stored as glycogen in the liver.

    2.The post-absorptive phase – 6-24 hours after beginning fasting.   Insulin levels start to fall. Breakdown of glycogen releases glucose for energy. Glycogen stores last for roughly 24 hours.

    3. Gluconeogenesis – 24 hours to 2 days – The liver manufactures new glucose from amino acids in a process called “gluconeogenesis”. Literally, this is translated as “making new glucose”. In non-diabetic persons, glucose levels fall but stay within the normal range.

    4. Ketosis – 2-3 days after beginning fasting – The low levels of insulin reached during fasting stimulate lipolysis, the breakdown of fat for energy. The storage form of fat, known as triglycerides, is broken into the glycerol backbone and three fatty acid chains. Glycerol is used for gluconeogenesis. Fatty acids may be used for directly for energy by many tissues in the body, but not the brain. Ketone bodies, capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier, are produced from fatty acids for use by the brain. After four days of fasting, approximately 75% of the energy used by the brain is provided by ketones. The two major types of ketones produced are beta hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate, which can increase over 70 fold during fasting.

    5. Protein conservation phase – >5 days – High levels of growth hormone maintain muscle mass and lean tissues. The energy for maintenance of basal metabolism is almost entirely met by the use of free fatty acids and ketones. Increased norepinephrine (adrenalin) levels prevent the decrease in metabolic rate.

    The human body has well developed mechanisms for dealing with periods of low food availability. In essence, what we are describing here is the process of switching from burning glucose (short term) to burning fat (long term). Fat is simply the body’s stored food energy. In times of low food availability, stored food is naturally released to fill the void. So no, the body does not ‘burn muscle’ in an effort to feed itself until all the fat stores are used.

    Do continue reading (use link below) - it's another very interesting piece from Dr Jason Fung

    https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/

    All the best Jan
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by beardie on Sun Apr 19 2015, 14:58

    @OldTech wrote:My current average for postprandial is 4.7. I have only seen spikes to around 5.5 6 times in the last 3 months. As I said it is amazing constant.
    Those results are at least as good as the non diabetics I have tested. I am no doctor and have never had diabetic medication, but I wonder if you need that amount of metformin?

    Brilliant results, better than mine and they say I am cured. Did you say what your HbA1 c result is?
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by beardie on Sun Apr 19 2015, 15:02

    @beardie wrote:
    @OldTech wrote:My current average for postprandial is 4.7. I have only seen spikes to around 5.5 6 times in the last 3 months. As I said it is amazing constant.
    Those results are at least as good as the non diabetics I have tested. I am no doctor and have never had diabetic medication, but I wonder if you need that amount of metformin?

    Brilliant results, better than mine and they say I am cured. Did you say what your HbA1 c result is?

    Oops just noticed it in your signature. I have never seen one as low as that.
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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by Paul1976 on Sun Apr 19 2015, 15:04

    Don't you just wish HCP's would finally distinguish between 'Cured' and 'Well controlled' eh Beardie?


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    Re: Fasting - A History Dr Jason Fung

    Post by beardie on Sun Apr 19 2015, 15:05

    @Sarah wrote:Agreed, avoid meds at all costs if possible.

    Seems too obvious. Even if you cant avoid them surely take as little as possible.
    I never understood people disagreeing with that.

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