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    Oh Dear, More Science

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    chris c
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    Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by chris c on Sun Jul 02 2017, 22:57

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    chris c
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by chris c on Tue Jul 25 2017, 00:28

    And more

    http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/news/2017/06/fattyliverdiseasereversed/

    low carb does this, David Unwin has a paper on the subject AFAICR

    Is dietary carbohydrate essential for human nutrition?

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/75/5/951.2.long

    the answer is no, obviously

    A nice chunk of history, by Gerald Reaven and for once not paywalled

    http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(04)00007-5

    More history

    http://vernerwheelock.com/264-the-wisdom-of-petr-skrabenek/

    Fructose vs. insulin resistance

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC552336/

    More on Omega 6 and other fats, from 1998

    http://www.jci.org/articles/view/119546/version/1/pdf/render

    More on "heart healthy" seed oils

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4642429/

    Stephan Guyenet came up with some interesting stuff on his old blog Whole Heath Source, including a theory that perhaps these oils were originally toxic (as per the Rose Corn Oil Trial) but after their consumption increased massively it actually became better to add more of them than to add saturated fat - unless of course you cut them back drastically.

    The he had his brain removed so he could work for Michael Schwartz on his "Food Reward" theory that no-one else understood, and fight with Gary Taubes by claiming insulin actually made you thin. Now he's gone back to looking at the negative effects of Omega 6 again, something a whole bunch of others are now also studying (and not before time)

    Up to date stuff looking at glucagon with Roger Unger

    https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/2965091

    2009 and finally the ADA get around to looking at 1 hour postprandials in "prediabetes"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2628694/

    Jim Johnson looks at insulin and obesity

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2628694/

    and even more up to date

    http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(17)30862-8

    (Gareth Lim now also has his own lab while Jim is in Oxford, currently employed by Novo Nordisk but still pursuing science rather than dogma)

    Phew!
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    graham64
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by graham64 on Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:50

    Phew! indeed  Laughing  more reading matter to take in  Cool

    Meanwhile 

    Fasting Plasma Glucose and HbA1c Associated With an Increased Risk of Alzheimer Disease: 

    http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2017/07/10/dc16-2238

    A WTF moment

    Type 2 diabetes: Value of home blood sugar monitoring unclear

    In a study published in JAMA Internal Medicine, researchers enrolled 450 people with Type 2 diabetes, none of whom were taking insulin. They were randomly assigned to one of three groups:


    • no self-monitoring of blood sugar
    • once daily self-monitoring of blood sugar
    • once-daily self-monitoring of blood sugar with “enhanced feedback” from their blood glucose meters with messages intended to educate and motivate the study volunteers.


    After one year these researchers found that, compared with those not self-monitoring blood sugar, those who self-monitored had no improvement in the control of their blood sugar, and had no improvement in measures of quality of life.

    http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/type-2-diabetes-value-home-blood-sugar-monitoring-unclear-2017072411989

    Looks like I'm a member of a cult  Shocked

    Statin Denialism Is 'A Deadly Internet-Driven Cult'

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/cardiology/cardiobrief/66863

    Efficacy of low carbohydrate diet for type 2 diabetes mellitus management: A systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials

    http://www.diabetesresearchclinicalpractice.com/article/S0168-8227(17)30402-3/fulltext

    Alas the last link is paywalled only the abstract is available


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    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by chris c on Sat Jul 29 2017, 21:26

    OK I'll play

    https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/doi/10.1210/er.2017-00111/3892397/Obesity-Pathogenesis-An-Endocrine-Society

    Michael Schwartz, I haven't dragged myself to reading it yet, it's a bit long but I predict insulin and carbs won't be mentioned much if at all

    Rory Robertson tries to get through the thick skulls of the Australian Government

    http://www.australianparadox.com/pdf/Expanded-Letter-HealthDept-type2diabetes.pdf

    Meanwhile this is a big surprise

    http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinical/more-clinical-areas/diabetes/why-gps-should-prescribe-a-low-carb-diet-for-type-2-diabetes/20034873.article`

    especially the numerous favourable replies, hopefully this will be read by many more doctors.
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by graham64 on Sun Jul 30 2017, 22:01

    chris c wrote:OK I'll play

    https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/doi/10.1210/er.2017-00111/3892397/Obesity-Pathogenesis-An-Endocrine-Society

    Michael Schwartz, I haven't dragged myself to reading it yet, it's a bit long but I predict insulin and carbs won't be mentioned much if at all

    Rory Robertson tries to get through the thick skulls of the Australian Government

    http://www.australianparadox.com/pdf/Expanded-Letter-HealthDept-type2diabetes.pdf

    Meanwhile this is a big surprise

    http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinical/more-clinical-areas/diabetes/why-gps-should-prescribe-a-low-carb-diet-for-type-2-diabetes/20034873.article`

    especially the numerous favourable replies, hopefully this will be read by many more doctors.

    Excellent from Pulse I put the article on the blog on Friday, there does appear a gathering of momentum for LC amongst GP's no doubt the publicity generated by Dr Unwin has had some influence and of course it's hard to ignore a diet than has so many benefits for diabetics


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    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by chris c on Fri Aug 04 2017, 00:46

    I suspect possibly less pressure from the likes of PCTs as their replacement CCGs appear to have more input from doctors and less from accountants. Certainly our local surgery seems an order of magnitude more relaxed without everyone looking over their shoulders for Big Brother to get them.

    Yes it gets harder to dismiss successful patients as "just anecdotes" when there are so many of them, and (hopefully) more doctors are accessing the internet.

    Now Ethics Committees are less likely to block low carb studies and even the most prestigious journals are finally publishing them, I think there's at least some pressure coming from above as well as the pressure from below. Already DUK has partly backed down. Dieticians, not so much, obviously.
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by graham64 on Fri Aug 04 2017, 22:33

    chris c wrote:I suspect possibly less pressure from the likes of PCTs as their replacement CCGs appear to have more input from doctors and less from accountants. Certainly our local surgery seems an order of magnitude more relaxed without everyone looking over their shoulders for Big Brother to get them.

    Yes it gets harder to dismiss successful patients as "just anecdotes" when there are so many of them, and (hopefully) more doctors are accessing the internet.

    Now Ethics Committees are less likely to block low carb studies and even the most prestigious journals are finally publishing them, I think there's at least some pressure coming from above as well as the pressure from below. Already DUK has partly backed down. Dieticians, not so much, obviously.

    Dietitians like these  Question

    https://twitter.com/KelloggsRDs


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by chris c on Mon Aug 07 2017, 23:42

    You Just Couldn't Make This Up!

    Interesting thoughts from Gary Fettke. The Militant Vegans and Militant Statinists and Cholesterol supporters all have a seemingly religious fervour. Now it looks like it actually IS religious fervour

    http://foodmed.net/2017/08/07/medical-evangelism-adventist-diet-advice/

    I knew the Kelloggs connection - breakfast cereal was originally invented to prevent masturbation (which works when you eat it for long enough due to diabetic neuropathy and arterial damage) but had no clue about the Vegan connection and the huge influence of the Seventh Day Adventists beyond knowing they were largely but not exclusively vegetarian and starred in numerous studies.

    Meanwhile some more reality

    Retrospective study on the efficacy of a low-carbohydrate diet for impaired glucose tolerance

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4063858/

    Long-term effects of a ketogenic diet in obese patients

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

    and an oldie

    Skeletal Muscle Insulin Resistance Is the Primary Defect in Type 2 Diabetes

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2811436/

    more modern research throws some further light on this, Richard Feinman et al have showed that carbs increase Free Fatty Acids in the blood through inhibiting their metabolism until after all the carbs have been dealt with - which never happens when you are eating your dietician-approved three carby meals and three carby snacks per day
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by chris c on Sun Aug 20 2017, 00:16

    Oops!

    https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/477216

    Bradford Hill wouldn't be totally impressed, but quite a difference in HR between LDL vs. trigs/HDL, ie.
    insulin resistance

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4625988/pdf/permj19_4p0004.pdf

    Yes you could "open a new therapeutic
    window on reducing elevated levels of triglyceride rich
    lipoproteins through activation of lipoprotein
    lipase

    or you could just eat fewer carbs

    More on IR which makes it look like lipids are more of a marker and less of a cause, from 13 years ago

    http://www.jlr.org/content/45/3/507.long

    Yet more pathways between glucose, insulin and CVD, from 11 years ago

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1550220/

    and from nine years ago

    http://journals.lww.com/cardiovascularpharm/Fulltext/2008/10000/High_Glucose_Concentration_Increases_Macrophage.5.aspx

    Selenium and Co-Q10 totally blow statins out of the water

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141641&type=printable

    Enough for now, time to go listen to London Grammar, goodnight!

    http://www.nejm.org.sci-hub.bz/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1706907?query=TOC
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    Wobblycogs
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by Wobblycogs on Sun Aug 20 2017, 08:31

    It's pointless trying to discuss low carb with a low-fat fanatic. Most of them refuse to discuss the science, and merely try to shout-down the low carber. Just like global warming fanatics when faced with a 'denier' (Their word, not mine!)
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    Eddie
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by Eddie on Sun Aug 20 2017, 13:44

    Wobblycogs wrote:It's pointless trying to discuss low carb with a low-fat fanatic. Most of them refuse to discuss the science, and merely try to shout-down the low carber. Just like global warming fanatics when faced with a 'denier' (Their word, not mine!)

    "It's pointless trying to discuss low carb with a low-fat fanatic" Agreed, but winding 'em up is one hell of a hoot, just ask Graham. rofl


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by graham64 on Sun Aug 20 2017, 21:31

    Eddie wrote:
    Wobblycogs wrote:It's pointless trying to discuss low carb with a low-fat fanatic. Most of them refuse to discuss the science, and merely try to shout-down the low carber. Just like global warming fanatics when faced with a 'denier' (Their word, not mine!)

    "It's pointless trying to discuss low carb with a low-fat fanatic" Agreed, but winding 'em up is one hell of a hoot, just ask Graham. rofl

    And winding them up is so easy it does help when they have zero sense of humour  Laughing and the very fact were still here despite their warnings of the dire consequences of LCHF must be hard for them to take  Cool

    I did try being nice to them but the cherub took exception to me calling her sweetie  Shocked obviously my gesture in an attempt to resolve our differences was spurned out of hand  Shocked Shocked


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by graham64 on Mon Aug 21 2017, 22:15

    Interesting study on chocolate 

    Brachial and Cerebrovascular Functions Are Enhanced in Postmenopausal Women after Ingestion of Chocolate with a High Concentration of Cocoa

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2017/08/08/jn.117.250225.abstract


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Wobblycogs
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by Wobblycogs on Tue Aug 22 2017, 13:48

    Thanks Graham.

    But of course cocoa powder isn't harmful. It's the milk and sugar they mix with it that make chocolate 'sinful'! Try double cream, whipped to firmness and sprinkled with cocoa. Not a grain of sugar in sight! Quite palatable if you don't over do the cocoa!  mrgreen

    Cheers Wobbly John
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    Wobblycogs
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by Wobblycogs on Tue Aug 22 2017, 14:05

    Of course fasting can be harmful.

    If you don't eat you will die!  mrgreen

    Wouldn't the human body be designed to survive emergency fasts? Our ancestors must have been hungry quite frequently. when food supplies dwindled and became scarce.  Nowadays of course we are smart enough to make our own food; and stupid enough to eat it!

    Seriously I think many people regard fasting as going without food for a week or more. I couldn't go that long with just water. However, I don't eat very much at all on Mondays. Just water and a couple of servings of my home-made consommés. Give the system the weekly rest it deserves. Tonight I am going to have a 'full English' tea... With mushrooms!

    Cheers  Wobbly John  bounce
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by Eddie on Tue Aug 22 2017, 14:40

    For many folks these days, fasting lasts about half and hour, then it's munching junk until the next err...junk meal. I heard of a bloke that could get by on 17 grams of cornflakes and a splash of semi-skimmed. Last I heard he ended up in the Rubber Ramada, completely batshit. Lack of healthy fats evidently, a sobering lesson for us all.


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Oh Dear, More Science

    Post by chris c on Wed Aug 23 2017, 00:11

    graham64 wrote:
    Eddie wrote:
    Wobblycogs wrote:It's pointless trying to discuss low carb with a low-fat fanatic. Most of them refuse to discuss the science, and merely try to shout-down the low carber. Just like global warming fanatics when faced with a 'denier' (Their word, not mine!)

    "It's pointless trying to discuss low carb with a low-fat fanatic" Agreed, but winding 'em up is one hell of a hoot, just ask Graham. rofl

    And winding them up is so easy it does help when they have zero sense of humour  Laughing and the very fact were still here despite their warnings of the dire consequences of LCHF must be hard for them to take  Cool

    I did try being nice to them but the cherub took exception to me calling her sweetie  Shocked obviously my gesture in an attempt to resolve our differences was spurned out of hand  Shocked Shocked

    https://theoverheardpress.com/2017/02/10/low-fat-diet-harms-part-of-brain-responsible-for-hearing-criticism-of-low-fat-diet/

    Meanwhile this is astonishing

    http://letthemeatmeat.com/tagged/Seventhday_Adventists

    and of course

    http://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/type_2_diabetes_market_set_to_soar,_says_globaldata_1202514

    Buy shares now and invest the profits into grassfed meat and veggies

      Current date/time is Tue Oct 17 2017, 14:28