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    Fat, a musing

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    Andy12345
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    Fat, a musing

    Post by Andy12345 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 07:25

    The word fat is the problem of course, the reason people can't accept lchF, is it possible to change our perception of fat? sensible, kind, reasonable people see fat as a bad thing, we have been taught to dislike fat, the thing that makes us ill is fat, the thing that makes us ugly is fat, the beautiful people are the thin people, the models, the famous, everything about fat is bad, we are encouraged not to get fat, then to get thin, even by dieting on a lchf diet, the ultimate goal is to be thin not fat, by not being fat we get better, it cures diabetes t2, how do you change the perception of a thing that is the correct perception, fat is a bad thing, of course this is a context, in the right context we know fat is good, without fat we die, but in general we are taught and rightly so that fat is bad, how can we expect people that to take the leap of faith that fat is good in a certain context? it takes a leap of faith the believe in god, i certainly can't take that leap, but expect hope others will do when it comes to accepting not only that fat is good, which we know its not but that it can be good in certain circumstances, i.e.. when we eat it, what a huge leap of faith that is to take, fat is bad unless you eat it? that makes little sense unless you are looking for it to, unless you have made that leap and are reinforcing your belief, how did i come to the conclusion? out of desperation, i could so easily have come to a different conclusion, could have believed the anti fat world we live in, so assuming we want to save the world, what do we do? there is no simple answer, change the word fat? which side do we change? the fat on our bodies or the fat we eat? better to change the word for the fat on our bodies as the word fat in food is what it is, but then the fat in food is also what it is so which is to change? fat is fat regardless of where it grows, fat is bad and good, a hard thing to accept, most things are one or the other, i think its unreasonable to expect people to accept fat is good without years or generations of education, education is much easier to get when you don't have half the population saying its wrong, we know its right but will take a very long time i think, will the human race be around that long? so hitting our heads against the wall trying to convince people is a waste of time? no it can't be, i was convinced and it saved my life, so if you feel despondent, think again! i am a product of your efforts, we must fight on

    thankyou for letting me (you had no choice) share todays thoughts

    live long and prosper, nanu nanu
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    Eddie
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by Eddie on Tue Feb 02 2016, 09:07

    How about this for my thoughts on anything and everything we believe. Most of what we have been told we believe, we either have no choice or it does not make a difference to us. For example I believe the sun is 93 million miles away. I have no way of measuring how far away the sun is and it matters not a jot to me, I am happy to accept that as fact, as with a gazillion other things I believe. It’s when something can or has affected us we question. I believed dietary fat was bad for our health for a long time, until I was 58 I had never been ill in my life. I joined the betus club, I had become heavily overweight, dare I say fat. I followed the recommended diet for a diabetic, it was a total failure, as most will testify here. I have stated many times a guy called Fergus Craig a type one diabetic put me straight. Low carb higher fat reversed my T2 symptoms etc. etc. Problem solved get on with my life.

    Once the dust had settled, it started to dawn on me, how could the scientists and doctors have got it so wrong. This was the first time in my life, I had seriously questioned a huge chunk of accepted by the establishment and most of the general publics beliefs. Before I had been lucky maybe, my life had been better and more successful than I deserved. The system had treated me very well, I had no reason before to question the ‘system’. It had come as a shock to see how wrong the system is, I felt so naive, in many ways a fool. Our health is the most important thing to us, and in 58 years I had never given it a second thought.

    This changed my entire way I looked at the world, especially the world of medicine and health. I came to realise so much in the world of health, medicine and especially diet, is based on no science at all. Just one example on how the scientists and doctors are completely and utterly clueless is mental health. Within my lifetime, millions of people have been subjected to lobotomies, electroshock treatment, and induced insulin overdose comas. It helped no one, it killed and maimed countless people, but learned medical professionals believed it could work. Any straight thinking person should have realised almost immediately, these techniques were going nowhere, but they carried on for decades.

    So, over the last seven years I have looked at many areas that have a massive effect on our lives, areas that I never gave a second thought to, when everything was going great, for me and mine. It is obvious why we focus on what is wrong with the way diabetes is treated throughout the world, but I can assure you, the same applies in almost every walk of life. Almost everything we believe in and have held dear, in so many ways, is corrupt, it is false, it is a lie. Now, you may be thinking what a negative son of a bitch, why doesn't this guy cut his wrists and have done with it. For me it all comes down to, do people want to know the truth, or are we happier not knowing. This comes down to, what's the point of knowing something, if we cannot do anything about it, or now I know, can I, or will I do something about it.

    I will come back and comment more on this thread. I appreciate few if any others will comment on what I have said. Sorry if I have bored you rigid, I do have some answers to the doom, but Jan is away for a couple of days and I promised to decorate the kitchen. Onwards and upwards.


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Andy12345
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by Andy12345 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 10:13

    great post mate

    yeah, your a negative son of a bitch, but your probably also right

    interesting question, would people rather not know the truth, i think human beings on the whole are simply lazy. regardless of their beliefs, they take the easy path, is that wrong? not for them, when they hear the truth, they won't act because its often more difficult than ignoring it, i reckon that includes us all, but we choose our battles i suppose, but we can't choose our passions, and this is one of yours Eddie
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by mo1905 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 10:55

    Interesting comments, some great points raised so far. Yes, much of our medicine is wrong. We do blindly believe a lot of what we are told by these "health professionals" because we were raised to respect these people. So, next question, is it a bad thing that much of science is wrong ? Yes, however, I do think it is a necessary evil. Science, and much of society in general, make progress from mistakes. In Victorian times, mercury, arsenic and phosphorous were a common form of treatment. Pain relief was virtually non-existent. Diet was whatever you could afford, not by choice.
    An example ( non medical related unfortunately ) would be the Fire Service. Only through many deaths of firefighters was progress made. The use of breathing apparatus and guide lines came about due to specific incidents. OK, not completely relevant to subject matter but similar process of advancement.
    I'm sure in 50 years time, our grandkids will look back and laugh at our diet, treatment and healthcare. That's normal though, evolution.
    Eddie is spot on with his comment that we only really question when things affect us or our loved ones. Sadly, Andy is also correct when he says we, like water, invariably choose the path of least resistance.


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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by Andy12345 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 11:09

    absolutely right, we learn by mistakes, i think the problem is in regards to our diets these days is, they are lying to us for finacial profit, whereas in the past, the mistakes were honest ones although ignorant
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by mo1905 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 11:21

    Yeah, I agree. It's not a new thing though. I think we've grown up being lied to. For the last 100 years there have been food, cosmetics, tobacco, drink and pharmaceutical manufacturers that have twisted the truth, lied and brainwashed us.


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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by Andy12345 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 11:58

    oh my god! they are unbelievable huh
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by Eddie on Tue Feb 02 2016, 12:43

    Andy12345 wrote:absolutely right, we learn by mistakes, i think the problem is in regards to our diets these days is, they are lying to us for finacial profit, whereas in the past, the mistakes were honest ones although ignorant

    I agree 100%. Take the example Mo gave re. the Firemen. As with almost any situation we learn from our mistakes. When Fireman died, others thought how can we stop this happening again. So, from the days of a horse-drawn cart and some leather buckets, to today's high tech equipment and training, great progress has been made, and will continue to be made. Progress takes time. No one was making money out of Fireman being killed, in fact the opposite. The cost to the state, when a young Fireman with a family is killed on duty, must be very high, all things considered.

    Back to health and diabetes. Well we know more than most, type one diabetes can strike anyone. Lifestyle, diet, genetics etc. plays no part in becoming a type one diabetic, as far as we know as of today. Type two is a totally different ball game, lifestyle, diet and genetics play a huge roll. We all know this is fact beyond a shred of doubt. Most here knew this within a few weeks or months of joining the betus club. The question I have asked myself countless times is, If we learnt this in no time at all, how come almost all Doctors and dietitians never learnt this, many having been in their professions for decades. We have told them how we have achieved our successes, they have our medical records, the facts are staring them in the face.

    The fact is, so many are either as thick as a plank (I doubt that very much) or they are prepared to turn a blind eye to what works. To not rock the boat and keep the pay cheque coming in, they are prepared to watch people deteriorate and go to an early grave. So many have been corrupted by big pharma, junk food and bent scientists.

    Andy said "i think human beings on the whole are simply lazy. regardless of their beliefs, they take the easy path, is that wrong? not for them, when they hear the truth, they won't act because its often more difficult than ignoring it" This is also true, we have the situations discussed because, we ask to be shafted. When we see huge injustice and corruption, we ignore it, in fact we bend over backwards and ask for more. The powers that be know this. With enough time, you can take almost anything from anyone. You can take away their pensions, take away their savings (in many ways) take away the value of their property, take away their job, and worse of all, take away their health. And most take it on the chin, most are slaves in all but name. While this goes on, around 5% of the worlds population own most of the worlds wealth. Half the world don't get enough to eat, while the other half eats to much. The worst thing in all of this, is the fact this has been planned. I know, you think I am a conspiracy theorist, a voice of doom, maybe a manic depressive.

    I can assure you I am not. In many ways I have never been happier. It took me most of my life, to take a step back, to actually realise how I had been controlled from the cradle to only a few years ago. OK no man is an island, no one can be totally independent, but is seems to me, the closer we can get, to being 'beholden to no one' the better off we are. Most of us have been so busy all our lives to think. First School, then work, then the family, then the home. Then you get to a stage, and for what ever reason, you think jeez, where did my life go. By the time most of us realise what we really wanted, what is really important to us, we are on the way out, some of course, many maybe, never realise.

    I suspect I am coming across as a nutter, a man who is bitter, a man who has been dealt too many bad hands. That is not the case, it may sound like self aggrandisement, but without wanting to sound smug, I have had it all pretty much during my life. I still have a lot more than many, but what I value more than almost anything else is freedom. Freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of action. It took me most of my life to realise how trapped I was, and that before we can be free, we have to realise we are trapped.

    Ah well, back on the paintbrush. Don't want Jan giving me grief rofl


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by Andy12345 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 13:51

    I can't disagree with a single word geeza

    getting away from the big pharma and in more hungry planet terms, i only worry, with stuff like this, could me, you or anyone do a better job? i know you answered yes lol, ok could i run a world better? probably not, everything we change about this society/world, every positive impact has a negative impact somewhere else, i know its all nuts, the old person who paid their entire lives into a system, they see them afraid to turn on the fire in the winter for fear of not having the money to pay the bill, but i think fixing it is unrealistic, because every old person that is cold, every hungry person that don't have food, every soldier returning home to live as a vagrant after fighting for our freedom, where does that money come from? stop sending it abroad? is that right? to see those kids suffer? that soldier may have joined the army because he was a bloody nightmare and joined up as a way of staying out of trouble and having an income, the old person may be minted but tight as arseholes eventually leaving 1.5 million to cats home, so if we assume every needy person in the world is genuine so as not to hurt the ungenuine ones, where do we get the money from? the people who have it won't let go of it, the people who work hard to earn it, need most of it and why shouldn't they enjoy the fruits of their gains?
    ok you know i don't explain myself well because I'm tick as a plank, but what I'm saying is, to make things right we are going to have to adopt communism and start from scratch, strip everyone of everything a redistribute the food and wealth evenly? how is that fair? I'm working to give my kids a better life, should they be given exactly the same as the kids of the dads that never worked a day in their lives? ok kids are kids they should all be equal? well i aint grafting my whole life so my kids can be equally as poor as every other kid on the planet, the hungry kids in africa, YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH FOOD, STOP HAVING 20 KIDS oops sorry, lost it for a second, what I'm trying and failing to say in all this nonsense is, ok the system is corrupt and wrong but how do you or we make it better? so we are back to doing nothing or doing something, we may be able and should change what we can, but in general we are pretty insignificant, and without an uprising can do very little fast, if we had an uprising, what would we do different? so it has to be changed over time, over time we are changing but by all accounts it seems to be getting worse, hows that for doom and gloom Smile i don't do idealism very well and you know I'm no socialist hehe

    apologise for that, following a really terrific post

    so do i take the blue pill or the red pill?
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by mo1905 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 15:44

    You could say this is a form of Darwin's Theory of Evolution ? Survival of the fittest ? What could we do and, maybe more importantly, should we ? For those that cannot provide or don't want to provide, what support should we give ? In the animal kingdom, they would perish. Now, I'm not harsh enough to believe that we should behave like animals and standby and watch suffering but I also don't believe in the utopia that everything should be equal. For a race to evolve, we need strong and weaker members. It's just nature. What do you think ?


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    Andy12345
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by Andy12345 on Tue Feb 02 2016, 18:40

    That would mean letting endangered species disappear, and anything else for that matter, you could take it to the extreme, it's ok to murder if your stronger, your just surviving according to nature, (can't use the animals only kill to eat because they don't lol just in case) or is strength defined by intelligence, is evolution gentle or aggressive or does it just sort itself out according to whoever survives, we could leave our old folks in a tent to die when their teeth are gone lol my dad always used to say we should put old people down so they don't become a drain on society, until he got old, is evolution us ascending to a point where we have the power to make all things equal, no idea where this is going lol
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    Re: Fat, a musing

    Post by chris c on Wed Feb 03 2016, 23:45

    On the "fat" issue, Andreas Eenfeldt had a great line

    "Eating fat doesn't make you fat  any more than eating vegetables makes you green"

    My late friend Quentin Grady used to call things that were "completely obvious" but completely wrong "ficts". Some memes are so entrenched that they are believed in the face of reality.

    I think it was Peter at Hyperlipid who had a great quote but I can't remember the source

    "Education teaches you what questions NOT to ask. The failures become scientists"

    Unfortunately many "scientists" especially in the dietary field are more interested in their next research grant than The Truth. Jobs and whole careers have been lost by being right in a field where everyone else was wrong. 

    Then there is Karl Popper with his black swans, and paradigm shifts which only occur when the holders of the previous paradigm die. That's the situation we're currently in with dietary research vs. dietary policy. Time was when research into anything other than "low fat" was routinely blocked by Ethics Committees, and when studies were permitted the likes of Richard Feinman, Eric Westman, Jeff Volek, Steven Phinney et al. couldn't get anything published, hence they started the Open Access Journal Nutrition And Metabolism.

    Now they are routinely published in the most prestigious journals, and hordes of other researcher have sprung up starting from the premise that low fat diets didn't work and looking at why and what to do instead.

    But this stuff is routinely concealed from doctors in the guise of "evidence-based" medicine (or as someone called it "eminence-based medicine") and hordes of other researchers are being given grants to come up with even the most poorly done studies which back Conventional Wisdom, which get all the Press Releases.

    This change has come about mainly in the last decade or so but it is still only known to people who go look for the information themselves and people who read their blogs. It's gotten to where a LOT of patients know more than a LOT of doctors. 

    What's the difference between God and a doctor?

    God knows he is not a doctor.

    Actually there is a small but steadily increasing number of doctors, mainly consultants not GPs, who are aware of some of this stuff, but they are currently being targetted by the likes of dieticians all over the world who are intent on defending their dogma even though it is obvious since it hasn't worked yet it isn't going to work EVER. Well except for making huge profits for their sponsors of course.

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