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    I think I don't have Type 2.

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    Wobblycogs
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    I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Wobblycogs on Wed Nov 18 2015, 16:01

    But my Doctor says I have.

    I am stuck. I have been prescribed Metformin, but I have read too many dire warnings about its use and side-effects.
    I have only one symptom of Type 2 and that is problematic, and swollen legs. However the swollen legs have come about since I have been caring for my Lady who has developed Parkinson's. Hence I can't rest my metal-knees as much as I should. Result, they have swollen, in response to the pain, and my lower-legs have  swollen in sympathy. At least that's what I believe, as opposed to poor circulation being the problem.

    I never have cold feet, my feet are fully movable and apart from a blotchy appearance, (which I've had since I had veins stripped ) my lower legs are normal.

    I wanted to know what was going on, but the Doc insists I have Type 2, even though the original blood test which signalled this would have been fine 12 months ago; since the goalposts were moved. Am I being weaned onto Metformin against my will?

    Since being diagnosed I have lost three stones courtesy of Dr. John Briffa's 'Waist Disposal'.  Do you think I can convince my Doctor she is wrong about  'healthy-eating' and saturated fats being killers? Of course I can't.

    Sighhhh!  floggingdeadhorse
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    Paul1976
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Paul1976 on Wed Nov 18 2015, 16:16

    Hi and welcome! Do you remember your test results that your doctor based his/her diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes on?

    Regards

    Paul


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    Eddie
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Eddie on Wed Nov 18 2015, 17:56

    Hi Wobbly and welcome from me.

    If your Dr. said you are a diabetic I think you can say you are a diabetic. But consider this. You say you have lost three stone in weight, from your comment re. diet you have also changed your diet. You are also on Metformin, these facts could well mean you have reversed your type two diabetes, many of us here have also done the same. That being said we are still diabetics, we have not been cured. If we go back to being heavily overweight or use the wrong diet (too many carbs) we will go back to running numbers that would confirm a type two diabetes diagnosis.

    Regarding the Metformin it is the most prescribed type two medication all around the world. It is one of the few diabetes drugs considered safe and has been used for a long time. It also has other benefits it has been said. Usually the only trouble people experience is stomach upsets in the early days. If it is causing you no problems I would stick with it.

    Please bear in mind we are not healthcare professionals and medication is for you and your Dr. to decide what's best for you, we can only talk of our experience.

    All the best thumb-up

    Eddie


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    mo1905
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by mo1905 on Wed Nov 18 2015, 18:00

    Hi, lots of questions there but I'll respond to your main 2. Your doc can suggest metformin but it's your body, you don't have to take them. Similarly, your diet, you KNOW LCHF works, just leave it at that. Why do you feel it necessary to try to convert your doctor ? Don't waste your time. It's only a matter of time before they all wise up and start looking at the facts anyway. Good luck :-)


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    Type1, Humalog and Solostar, Metformin, Lisinopril ( BP ), last HbA1C 41 ( 5.9% ), 20th Oct 2014, HbA1C 43 ( 6.1% ) 9th Mar 2015.
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    Wobblycogs
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Wobblycogs on Wed Nov 18 2015, 19:36

    All sound common-sense replies. Thank you.

    I can't recall my blood figures from the first diagnosis, but the practice nurse who conducted the initial examination told me that 12 months before, my readings would not have warranted any further action, as the figures had been changed, to err on the side of safety.  

    It sounded a bit daft that the NHS would want to say I have Type 2 if I haven't. That would be as dangerous as not treating someone who definitely did have the condition. That was one reason I didn't start dosing with Metformin, and decided to lose weight. (My obesity is/was the root cause of most of my problems I believe; my knees that were shot and had to be replaced, because of arthritis, my discs that kept 'slipping', and the hypertension I couldn't control without blockers. Not to mention my bank balance from buying larger and larger clothes!)

    As for converting my Doctor, I know it's impossible, but I get so angry when I hear 'nutritionists' spouting the usual rubbish about saturated fat, cholesterol and 'healthy' whole-grains. It's incorrect information, and any sane society would be using the advertising laws to prevent them giving forth with their dangerous drivel!  

    Right then, off my hobby-horse, and thanks for the information and the welcome folks. I'll try to be more positive in future!  Very Happy

    Cheers
    Wobbly thumb-up
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    Eddie
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Eddie on Wed Nov 18 2015, 19:54

    Wobbly welcome to the club, please hang around and post regularly, your words are music to my ears. BTW are you a drinker? lol!


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    graham64
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by graham64 on Wed Nov 18 2015, 21:47

    Hi welcome Wobbly Very Happy Metformin is usually well tolerated but like any drug does have side effects the main one being gastric troubles in many cases this can be alleviated by by changing to the slow release version (SR) most other side effects are rare, that said at the end of the day it's your choice not the doctors whether you take them or not.

    You can read more about metformin on our blog:

    Metformin beyond it's blood sugar lowering properties

    http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/metformin-beyond-its-blood-sugar.html


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Wobblycogs on Wed Nov 18 2015, 23:44

    @Eddie wrote:Wobbly welcome to the club, please hang around and post regularly, your words are music to my ears. BTW are you a drinker? lol!

    Eddie,

    Of course I am a drinker! I am also a heavy smoker, but as is often said, once a smoker or a drinker,  always a smoker or drinker. I just choose not to do either any more! Cool

    Thank you Graham. I'll check that out!

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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Eddie on Thu Nov 19 2015, 00:03

    Good for you mate. Some of us like a drink at this place and as you will see we have a slapstick sense of humour. beer


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Wobblycogs on Thu Nov 19 2015, 06:40

    Just got downstairs from bed. Had a cup of coffee, no milk. Reading is 7.5. As it usually is at this time.

    I think my meter has stuck! After breakfast the reading will change and two hours after that it will be below 6. I suppose I will carry on checking, but it all seems so steady Eddie! banghead Eeee! It's luv-laye when I stop!

    Cheers m'man.

    Very Happy
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by chris c on Thu Nov 19 2015, 20:48

    GENUINE nondiabetics have a BG which seldom deviates from 5 ± 0.5. Anyone going out of this range is On The Diabetic Progression. The earlier you catch it the earlier you can do something about it. I am "only" prediabetic because my BG seldom goes over 11.1. My mother was "only" prediabetic" despite her BG regularly hitting 11 - 15 after meals because her A1c was "only" 6.4%. Truly normal people have A1c below 5%.

    You clearly have a problem BUT whether you call it diabetes, prediabetes or anything else, if you treat yourself AS IF you already have diabetes you may never actually get it - if you see what I mean.

    You look to be suffering from "dawn phenomenon" which is not uncommon - your body spots that you are waking up and helpfully (!) provides too much glucose, which reduces later in the day when your insulin resistance has improved. Try testing around an hour after eating, and reducing carbs until your BG no longer spikes. This should reduce your insulin resistance over time. You may find a siginficant difference over time - when I started using Test Test Test I was limited to 15g carbs at breakfast and 30g by evening. After a while my breakfast reduced to 10g but my evening carb tolerance went up to 50 - 80g - not that I usually eat that much but the fact that I CAN on occasion suggests that my insulin is going a lot further than it used to.

    See if you can get a full lipid panel, or get them to give you the results: trigs/HDL ratio is a good indicator of IR, also of cardiovascular risk (a friend's cardiologist called Type 2 "a cardiovascular disease sometimes associated with high BG" which about nails it). Not only the high BG but the high insulin is a risk factor.
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Wobblycogs on Fri Nov 20 2015, 06:46

    Thanks Chris.

    Incidentally, there was an interesting program on TV last night. regarding a Doctor who stayed 'living-in' with a patient who was Type 2. He turned his patient's condition around and lost him a lot of weight. To my surprise the Doctor was clearly a believer in LCHF. The patients results were on a par with mine when I started; except I had much more weight to lose. My reading this morning, pre-food was 6.2. It can only elevate after a full English! Laughing
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by chris c on Fri Nov 20 2015, 20:53

    That dawn phenomenon can be a bugger to control. Some people find eating a handful of nuts or cheese and/or drinking a glass of wine the previous night helps. I found mine would start normal and then go up until I ate something, which sounds paradoxical but shows how much the liver can be driven by glucagon from the pancreatic alpha cells unless you tweak it in some way. Now I can fast all night for a blood test, go shopping and come home and find it hasn't budged. If I knew what I was doing right I'd sell it. Probably deleting the insulin resistance which happens over time with low carbing and especially weight loss, and if it doesn't add in some intermittent fasting. Or just live with it and concentrate on keeping the postprandial numbers down, they're easier to control.
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Derek on Tue Dec 15 2015, 19:07

    Hi Chris,
    Did you find low carbing controlled your hypos?
    regards
    D.
    @chris c wrote:That dawn phenomenon can be a bugger to control. Some people find eating a handful of nuts or cheese and/or drinking a glass of wine the previous night helps. I found mine would start normal and then go up until I ate something, which sounds paradoxical but shows how much the liver can be driven by glucagon from the pancreatic alpha cells unless you tweak it in some way. Now I can fast all night for a blood test, go shopping and come home and find it hasn't budged. If I knew what I was doing right I'd sell it. Probably deleting the insulin resistance which happens over time with low carbing and especially weight loss, and if it doesn't add in some intermittent fasting. Or just live with it and concentrate on keeping the postprandial numbers down, they're easier to control.
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by chris c on Wed Dec 16 2015, 16:26

    @Derek wrote:Hi Chris,
    Did you find low carbing controlled your hypos?

    Yes that was the biggest revelation. "Classic" theory says if you have reactive hypoglycemia you should eat carbs regularly throughout the day. Actually NOT eating them, especially not for breakfast, prevents the glucose spikes which produce the subsequent insulin spikes which produce the hypos.

    It's basically a timing problem - the insulin gets out of phase with the glucose and both start rollercoastering. Low carb applies damping.
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by Derek on Wed Dec 16 2015, 17:10

    I have R.H. Self diagnosed.  Low carbing since september has stopped exercise hypos dead.
    I never got hypos unless I exercised, walking or gardening. Mine occurred 2 hours + after starting meal.
    BG peaks at +1 hour after starting eating.
    I have had R.H. for years but only found out myself after I got a meter.

    In prediabetic range, diagnosed T2D but do not think I am T2.
    D.


    Last edited by Derek on Wed Dec 16 2015, 17:12; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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    Re: I think I don't have Type 2.

    Post by chris c on Wed Dec 16 2015, 17:39

    I believe although it is far from uncommon doctors are no longer permitted to diagnose RH. They must diagnose a "neurotic condition" called Idiopathic Postprandial Syndrome - which of course means they have no understanding of the mechanism, let alone any knowledge of how to control it.

    I've known a small but significant number of people just like me - RH starting in early childhood and not associated with overweight. Probably about half have gone on to be diagnosed diabetic, the rest have remained "prediabetic", but in all cases acting AS IF you are already diabetic cures the symptoms. By which of course I mean reducing carbs, not "eat more starch!" which is still the standard advice.

    IMO once your glucose deviates much from 5 ± 0.5 you are On The Diabetic Progression. Joseph Kraft would suggest it starts before your BG is affected, when your insulin goes out of range.

    http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2015/09/its-the-insulin-1.html

    There's a great interview with Kraft (now in his nineties) by Ivor Cummins, which she refers to.



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