Evelyn Cokur aka Carbsane aka the bloated blogger's latest stunt.

For those residing in the UK and have never heard of the CarbSane blog, run by a morbidly obese woman in the US called Evelyn Cokur, let me bring you up to speed. She has spent years rubbishing lowcarb and paleo. Everyone from A to Z literally, from Physician Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt to Nutritionist and best selling author Zoë Harcombe. The obvious question must be why?

Well, not so long ago Cokur appeared on a Jimmy Moore podcast and stated she lost a huge amount of weight by low carbing, perhaps the first time in her adult life she had obtained a safe weight. But, the junk food she called "treats" namely Lindt chocolates proved irresistible, back on went the weight. Low carb was a failure for Cokur, and hence a failure for all, according to the font of all knowledge and self styled Professor Emeritus of all things dietary. Many millions of people would argue she failed low carb.  

In my opinion Carbsane is best avoided, and I do my best to do that, but a friend sent me a link to Kocur's latest stunt. The bloated blogger has organised a petition against the best selling author of the book 'The Big Fat Surprise' Nina Teicholz. What the font hopes to achieve can only be guessed at.

Let's face it, taking weight loss lectures from Evelyn Cokur, makes about as much sense, as taking flying lessons from a Kamikaze pilot, it never ends well. Any straight thinker can spot a dud from a long way off. They can tell the difference between a blogger who wants to spread a message that may be of use or help someone, and a blog that has self aggrandisement, bitterness, and jealousy of others success written all over it.

Am I right or am I right.

Link to the Jimmy Moore podcast here http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/3557/blogger-carbsane-calls-gary-taubes-a-willful-fraud-episode-436/

Link to the petition here  https://www.change.org/p/fiona-godlee-bmj-editor-in-chief-rebecca-coombes-bmj-head-of-investigations-and-features-call-for-the-bmj-to-retract-teicholz-article-on-dietary-guidelines-committee-and-science?recruiter=76496340&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

Lol ! I see this has 'Flushed' ol' Charlie Grashow out on the blog! Still,at least he didn't mention statins or ask you for a full lipid breakdown this time!!

Paul1976 wrote:Lol ! I see this has 'Flushed' ol' Charlie Grashow out on the blog! Still,at least he didn't mention statins or ask you for a full lipid breakdown this time!!

Kocur's not all bad "You are blocked from following @CarbSane and viewing @CarbSane's Tweets." As for Charlie boy, I gave him a severe verbal chastisement and issued him with new kneeling pads, grovelling little wretch.

As I am sure you know, the Bonkers one and Phoenix are avid fans of the bloated blogger, who in turn worships Hope Warshaw. She of the...

"Old Dogma: People with type 2 diabetes should follow a low carbohydrate diet.

New Reality: Nutrition recommendations for people with type 2 diabetes from the American Diabetes Association and other health authorities echo the recently unveiled U.S. 2010 Dietary Guidelines (1/31/11) for carbohydrate : about 45 to 65 percent of calories. (Americans currently eat about 45 to 50 percent of calories as carbohydrate--not a "high carb" intake.)"

Said here http://www.diabeteshealth.com/type-2-diabetes-from-old-dogmas-to-new-realities-part-2/

A friend just sent me a link to a forum that pushes steroids for weight loss. He reckons Charlie boy is a mod. cvictorg is Charles Grashow's twitter account. Well, after all this time we see why Charlie is against low carbing for weight loss, he uses highly dangerous drugs (when abused) to lose weight it would appear. I see he has not signed Evie's petition as of 10 minutes ago. What strange games these people play.

Link to the steroid outfit https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/low-carb-high-fat-diet-guru-barry-groves-77-passes-away.134337797/

Grashow's twitter account is here https://twitter.com/cvictorg?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

JEEZ!! And we're supposedly the loons for promoting eating fresh grub???! Priceless or what!! :

If you must read her posts, but keep in mind her hatred of low carb anything. It would be really nice if we could start a campaign against her, but I doubt that it would result in any changes.

Paul1976 wrote:JEEZ!! And we're supposedly the loons for promoting eating fresh grub???! Priceless or what!!  :  

These goons can hide out in a shell hole in a Vietnamese paddy field and we always track 'em down. As you say, we tell people to eat whole fresh food, and they think they can win an argument. But Grashow has been so active for years rubbishing low carb. I have wanted his scalp for a long time.

OldTech wrote:If you must read her posts, but keep in mind her hatred of low carb anything. It would be really nice if we could start a campaign against her, but I doubt that it would result in any changes.

Let her carry on I say. I have lampooned her for years. If she is a strong argument against low carb, the antis are doomed. She is a wave short of a ship wreck for sure.

Eddie wrote:

No Hope Warshaw

I would. But she probably wouldn't enjoy *how*

OldTech wrote:If you must read her posts, but keep in mind her hatred of low carb anything. It would be really nice if we could start a campaign against her, but I doubt that it would result in any changes.

Consensus opinion on Andreas Eenfeldt's blog (which I'm currently reading/re-reading) is that you haven't arrived until Carbsane has attacked you.

chris c wrote:

OldTech wrote:If you must read her posts, but keep in mind her hatred of low carb anything. It would be really nice if we could start a campaign against her, but I doubt that it would result in any changes.

Consensus opinion on Andreas Eenfeldt's blog (which I'm currently reading/re-reading) is that you haven't arrived until Carbsane has attacked you.

Kind of like a badge of honour I guess!

Kocur's take on me.

"Eddie doesn't like me too much because I expose the underbelly of his beloved community. I also blog on the science here as regards what type 2 diabetes really is. In his world view, there is only one way to go with that -- VLC and metformin. It's a myopic view shared by many in the low carb community and they must prevent people from being exposed to folks like me who might show you otherwise through credible scientific references.”

But after millions of words, she has never ever offered a viable alternative to low carb as a way to control type two diabetes.

Eddie wrote:Kocur's take on me.

"Eddie doesn't like me too much because I expose the underbelly of his beloved community. I also blog on the science here as regards what type 2 diabetes really is. In his world view, there is only one way to go with that -- VLC and metformin. It's a myopic view shared by many in the low carb community and they must prevent people from being exposed to folks like me who might show you otherwise through credible scientific references.”

But after millions of words, she has never ever offered a viable alternative to low carb as a way to control type two diabetes.

Kocur's a non diabetics "interpretations" of credible scientific references do not equate to the experiences of Type 2 diabetics in the real world, has she ever witnessed the effects of carbs on a T2 , her only alternative is the Hopeless Warshaw way low fat plenty of carbs and the use of dubious medications.

But hey what do I know  seven plus years of LC are purely anecdotal and don't conform to her "interpretations" of credible scientific references so therefore must be disregarded.

graham64 wrote:
But hey what do I know  seven plus years of LC are purely anecdotal and don't conform to her "interpretations" of credible scientific references so therefore must be disregarded.

Ten years over here - and some people I know/knew have been doing this for up to 30 years without progressing.

Sadly the ones who started when it was standard advice from doctors etc. are now dying out - but from old age rather than complications.

Eddie wrote:

Paul1976 wrote:JEEZ!! And we're supposedly the loons for promoting eating fresh grub???! Priceless or what!!  :  

These goons can hide out in a shell hole in a Vietnamese paddy field and we always track 'em down. As you say, we tell people to eat whole fresh food, and they think they can win an argument. But Grashow has been so active for years rubbishing low carb. I have wanted his scalp for a long time.

Since you have graciously invited me to join the forum I've accepted.

As you said - "I have so much to ask you, and you me no doubt."

So let's start.

Here goes - I have absolutely no problem with a low carb, whole fresh food based diet. That's about what I eat. Raw goat milk, kefir, fresh eggs, grass fed meat, nuts, seeds, fruits, veggies, etc. No added sugars, trans fats, etc.

Possibly higher in carbs than the average person on this forum - I would say around 20% or so in my case.

As to Jimmy Moore - I do have problems with him - but so has Eddie
http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.com/2014/04/jimmy-moores-take-on-high-fat-diet.html

In his case, Jimmy Moore has gained and lost well over 700 lbs in the last 16 years. His diet has gotten more and more restrictive and his health has gotten worse. So I don not believe he is someone whose advice should be followed.

I await the replies but let us keep it civil.

If you like I will also post the meds I'm taking as well as the results of my last blood work, CT Scan, and carotid artery Duplex scan.

cvictorg wrote:

Eddie wrote:

Paul1976 wrote:JEEZ!! And we're supposedly the loons for promoting eating fresh grub???! Priceless or what!!  :  

These goons can hide out in a shell hole in a Vietnamese paddy field and we always track 'em down. As you say, we tell people to eat whole fresh food, and they think they can win an argument. But Grashow has been so active for years rubbishing low carb. I have wanted his scalp for a long time.

Since you have graciously invited me to join the forum I've accepted.

As you said - "I have so much to ask you, and you me no doubt."

So let's start.

Here goes - I have absolutely no problem with a low carb, whole fresh food based diet.  That's about what I eat.  Raw goat milk, kefir, fresh eggs, grass fed meat, nuts, seeds, fruits, veggies, etc.  No added sugars, trans fats, etc.

Possibly higher in carbs than the average person on this forum - I would say around 20% or so in my case.

As to Jimmy Moore - I do have problems with him - but so has Eddie
http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.com/2014/04/jimmy-moores-take-on-high-fat-diet.html

In his case, Jimmy Moore has gained and lost well over 700 lbs in the last 16 years.  His diet has gotten more and more restrictive and his health has gotten worse.  So I don not believe he is someone whose advice should be followed.

I await the replies but let us keep it civil.

If you like I will also post the meds I'm taking as well as the results of my last blood work, CT Scan, and carotid artery Duplex scan.

"Here goes - I have absolutely no problem with a low carb, whole fresh food based diet.  That's about what I eat.  Raw goat milk, kefir, fresh eggs, grass fed meat, nuts, seeds, fruits, veggies, etc.  No added sugars, trans fats, etc."

Chuffed to hear that Charles. I find it rather strange as you have been one of the most ardent supporters of the Carbsane blog, arguably the most anti low carb blog on the planet. Why is that Charles? BTW that was you on the steroids for weight loss forum was it not. As you know Carbsane has stated more than once publicly she lost a huge amount of weight by low carbing. But gained the weight back to obesity because she could not keep to the plan. What is your take on that situation?

"As to Jimmy Moore - I do have problems with him - but so has Eddie"

I have never had a problem with Jimmy, only yesterday we talked and I am planning to meet him in London upon his imminent visit to the UK. Yes I posted a picture of Jimmy's half pound of butter stunt, but I said at the time "is Jimmy spoofing us, is this a wind up ?  We need to be told !" Do you think Jimmy eats a half pound block of butter for breakfast? I don't.

It is fair to say, you and Evelyn Cokur have dedicated a great chunk of your lives rubbishing Jimmy and low carb, why?

"In his case, Jimmy Moore has gained and lost well over 700 lbs in the last 16 years.  His diet has gotten more and more restrictive and his health has gotten worse.  So I don not believe he is someone whose advice should be followed."

I have followed his advice and it has worked well for me, and I know it has worked for many others. A man can be a great teacher, yet not be a star in the discipline he teaches, such as sports coaches and the like.

"I await the replies but let us keep it civil."

Nowhere more civilised on the net than this place.

“Those who can't do, teach. And those who can't teach, teach gym.”
― Woody Allen, Annie Hall: Screenplay

"I have followed his advice and it has worked well for me, and I know it has worked for many others. A man can be a great teacher, yet not be a star in the discipline he teaches, such as sports coaches and the like."

If it works I have no problem but taking advice from Jimmy Moore with regard to weight and health is like having a doctor who smokes tell you it's bad. Appearances do matter.

For example - Prof Tim Noakes still needs to take 2,000 mgs of Metformin per day.

Dr Eric Westman associates himself with people like this
http://kediet.com/how_ke_works.html
HOW KE WORKS -
A RADICALLY
SIMPLE APPROACH
For 10 days, the KE Diet supplies your body with a very low-calorie, protein and fat-rich solution, delivered through a tiny feeding tube (about the size of a string of spaghetti) which goes through your nose directly to your stomach. There are no drugs and no surgery. The solution is delivered 24 hours a day through a small pump. You carry the pump and the solution easily and conveniently in a shoulder pack that we provide. The solution is a proprietary mixture of proteins, fats, vitamins and other elements designed to maintain essential nutrition and health during the 10-day period, while suppressing hunger.

The KE Diet works because it provides your body only with proteins and fats, and not with carbohydrates or sugars, thus forcing your body into a state of ketosis, in which your body burns its own fat. This is the same principle as some other low-carb programs, except the KE Diet, through its unique delivery method, intensifies the process and achieves dramatic results in a short period of time.*

*Your results may vary.

http://kediet.com/dr_eric_c_westman.html

Again - appearances do matter - especially when Dr Westman makes statements like this - which are totally wrong
https://www.adaptyourlife.com/faq/
IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE A HIGH PROTEIN DIET?
No, in the absence of carbohydrates, your body converts excess protein into glucose.

WILL I LOSE MUSCLE IF I REDUCE MY PROTEIN INTAKE?
No, because your body uses fat for fuel, it is never forced into breaking down muscle for energy. This is a muscle sparing diet.

Charles please extend to me the courtesy of answering my questions. Thank you. When you have done so, I will address your latest post.

cvictorg wrote:As to Jimmy Moore - I do have problems with him - but so has Eddie
http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.com/2014/04/jimmy-moores-take-on-high-fat-diet.html

In his case, Jimmy Moore has gained and lost well over 700 lbs in the last 16 years. His diet has gotten more and more restrictive and his health has gotten worse. So I don not believe he is someone whose advice should be followed.

Charlie you appear to be obsessed with Jimmy and his health but lets not forget this thread is about carbsane who obviously shares your obsession so save all your links for her blog.

I've said it before but I'll repeat it, Jimmy is honest and publishes all his bloodworks and is not shy about sharing his pictures online, compare that to carbsane who despite being obese never reveals anything as a comparison. Being obese could she also be insulin resistant and we'll never know how many comorbidities that could be a result of her obesity but level playing fields is what her and her cowardly ilk hate.

As an aside she does have or should that be "had" two diabetics who give her credence, namely Sid Bonkers and onepointfivediabetic (phoenix) since cabsanse's denunciation of the GI index (the only thing we can agree with) the latter will have probably have bowed out.

"I find it rather strange as you have been one of the most ardent supporters of the Carbsane blog, arguably the most anti low carb blog on the planet. Why is that Charles? BTW that was you on the steroids for weight loss forum was it not. As you know Carbsane has stated more than once publicly she lost a huge amount of weight by low carbing. But gained the weight back to obesity because she could not keep to the plan. What is your take on that situation?"

If she has regained the weight she's lost then she is doing something that is not working. She needs to find out what does work and then stick to that. But then again so does Jimmy.
That was me on the meso forum where I posted a lot about diet and exercise as well as hormone replacement therapy.
As to my "support" of her forum please post anything that she has posted that is factually incorrect.

"she has never ever offered a viable alternative to low carb as a way to control type two diabetes."

She has posted about this

http://paleodiabetic.com/2014/12/19/is-a-vegan-diet-better-than-paleo-for-t2-diabetes/
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2014/12/vegan-ma-pi-diet-bests-conventional.html


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dmrr.2519/pdf
Ma-Pi 2 macrobiotic diet and type 2 diabetes mellitus: pooled analysis of short-term intervention studies

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnme/2012/856342/
Medium- and Short-Term Interventions with Ma-Pi 2 Macrobiotic Diet in Type 2 Diabetic Adults of Bauta, Havana

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/832732
The Effect of the Macrobiotic Ma-Pi 2 Diet vs. the Recommended Diet in the Management of Type 2 Diabetes
The Randomized Controlled MADIAB Trial

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFUQFjAHahUKEwittI2_t6LIAhUC1IAKHTPqDXA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicc.org%2Fmediccreview%2Fpdf.php%3Flang%3D%26id%3D119&usg=AFQjCNHy7-y_eUc2QIRb4WqyqT9v11LlyA&bvm=bv.104226188,d.cWw
Ma-Pi 2 Macrobiotic Diet Intervention in Adults with Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus

Still evading the direct questions Charlie and still talking about Jimmy Moore. Tell me, do you ever go an hour without thinking of Jimmy? One thing cannot be denied, you are the king of cut and paste. But never a straight answer. Ifs, buts, maybe's. Charlie stop using our forum as a billboard for your antics and agenda, please.

What about EK's long term obesity? Yet you and her rubbish Jimmy and his weight. What about the steroids for weight loss. What about all the big name low carbers you have rubbished countless times?

Eddie wrote:Still evading the direct questions Charlie and still talking about Jimmy Moore. Tell me, do you ever go an hour without thinking of Jimmy? One thing cannot be denied, you are the king of cut and paste. But never a straight answer. Ifs, buts, maybe's. Charlie stop using our forum as a billboard for your antics and agenda, please.

What about EK's long term obesity? Yet you and her rubbish Jimmy and his weight. What about the steroids for weight loss. What about all the big name low carbers you have rubbished countless times?

1) I take testosterone for hormone replacement purposes.
2) The people I "rubbish" deserve it - IMHO
3) EK's long term obesity is a non-issue - Is she profiting off giving advice to people on how to lose weight??

Charlie you are a sophistical rhetorician, inebriated with the exuberance of your own verbosity, and gifted with an egotistical imagination that can at all times command an interminable and inconsistent series of arguments to malign an opponent and to glorify yourself. In other words, using UK street parlance, you talk complete bollocks and are full of shit. I cut my milk teeth seeing off the likes of you, sell your junk elsewhere, please.

Eddie wrote:Charlie you are a sophistical rhetorician, inebriated with the exuberance of your own verbosity, and gifted with an egotistical imagination that can at all times command an interminable and inconsistent series of arguments to malign an opponent and to glorify yourself.

But apart from that he's cool right?

cvictorg wrote:"I find it rather strange as you have been one of the most ardent supporters of the Carbsane blog, arguably the most anti low carb blog on the planet. Why is that Charles? BTW that was you on the steroids for weight loss forum was it not. As you know Carbsane has stated more than once publicly she lost a huge amount of weight by low carbing. But gained the weight back to obesity because she could not keep to the plan. What is your take on that situation?"

If she has regained the weight she's lost then she is doing something that is not working.  She needs to find out what does work and then stick to that.  But then again so does Jimmy.
That was me on the meso forum where I posted a lot about diet and exercise as well as hormone replacement therapy.
As to my "support" of her forum please post anything that she has posted that is factually incorrect.  

"she has never ever offered a viable alternative to low carb as a way to control type two diabetes."

She has posted about this

http://paleodiabetic.com/2014/12/19/is-a-vegan-diet-better-than-paleo-for-t2-diabetes/
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2014/12/vegan-ma-pi-diet-bests-conventional.html


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dmrr.2519/pdf
Ma-Pi 2 macrobiotic diet and type 2 diabetes mellitus: pooled analysis of short-term intervention studies

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnme/2012/856342/
Medium- and Short-Term Interventions with Ma-Pi 2 Macrobiotic Diet in Type 2 Diabetic Adults of Bauta, Havana

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/832732
The Effect of the Macrobiotic Ma-Pi 2 Diet vs. the Recommended Diet in the Management of Type 2 Diabetes
The Randomized Controlled MADIAB Trial

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFUQFjAHahUKEwittI2_t6LIAhUC1IAKHTPqDXA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicc.org%2Fmediccreview%2Fpdf.php%3Flang%3D%26id%3D119&usg=AFQjCNHy7-y_eUc2QIRb4WqyqT9v11LlyA&bvm=bv.104226188,d.cWw
Ma-Pi 2 Macrobiotic Diet Intervention in Adults with Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus

So Charles we should abandon our diets and go vegan then  there's more chance of carbsane posting a recent picture of herself than a lifelong omnivore like me adopting a vegan diet especially when the studies you cite have no long term follow up.

Of course you can supply evidence of diabetics that have taken up the Ma-Pi 2 Diet in the States or the UK given the endorsement of carbsane can't you ? 

As you well know we practice what we preach, seeing carbsane due to her obestity is a prime candidate to become one of the metabolically challenged  she should adopt the Ma-Pi 2 Diet herself to avoid joining the club and practice what she preaches.