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    keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

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    jlecount
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    keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Mon Feb 02 2015, 15:33

    Hey all,

    I'm recently starting LCHF as a type-1.  I do martial arts (Aikido) for 90 minutes, 4 days/week.  

    I've just started LCHF (2 days ago) so am backing off Aikido until I have a better understanding of how to reincorporate exercise without bottoming out.

    Until now, I've been told to bring my blood sugar up to as high as 180 before exercising to keep from going hypo.  Personally I've tried to avoid going that high and instead target 150 with a BG check every 30 minutes during class.

    How does LCHF (and burning fat instead of carbs primarily) change this?  I've yet to find concrete information on this.  Any advice?

    Thanks!
    Jason
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    zand
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by zand on Mon Feb 02 2015, 16:00

    Hi,

    I'm just saying welcome!

    Sorry I'm type 2 and can't answer your questions. But Hello anyway Smile
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    Eddie
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by Eddie on Mon Feb 02 2015, 16:05

    Hi Jason and welcome aboard. Mo one of the moderators will be along later. He is a type one and into exercise big time and a rower, I am sure he will have some good information for you.

    Regards Eddie



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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Paul1976
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by Paul1976 on Mon Feb 02 2015, 16:38

    Hi Jason and welcome to the forum! Smile

    As Eddie says,we have a type 1 member named Mo1905 who is on a Basal/Bolus insulin regime and has excellent blood glucose control who also does high intensity exercise who could hopefully give you some good pointers and we also have another Type 1 member with many years of experience called Dillinger who may hopefully spot this thread and offer some food for thought on this matter.
    I myself am a late onset type 1.5 diabetic and currently I am injecting a basal insulin only(This may change soon) and tend to only walk as an exercise so sadly don't feel qualified to advise you but your A1c is pretty good to say the least for a type 1 diabetic so well done! Smile

    Regards

    Paul


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    jlecount
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Tue Feb 03 2015, 03:38

    Yep -- I see a lot of mention of reduced hypos during exercise, or needing to supplement less glucose, but it seems hard to find concrete info.

    Thanks for the warm welcome!

    Jason
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by Eddie on Tue Feb 03 2015, 10:35

    @jlecount wrote:Hey all,

    I'm recently starting LCHF as a type-1.  I do martial arts (Aikido) for 90 minutes, 4 days/week.  

    I've just started LCHF (2 days ago) so am backing off Aikido until I have a better understanding of how to reincorporate exercise without bottoming out.

    Until now, I've been told to bring my blood sugar up to as high as 180 before exercising to keep from going hypo.  Personally I've tried to avoid going that high and instead target 150 with a BG check every 30 minutes during class.

    How does LCHF (and burning fat instead of carbs primarily) change this?  I've yet to find concrete information on this.  Any advice?

    Thanks!
    Jason

    Bumping this post. Can any type one's throw more light on the above post.


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by Dillinger on Tue Feb 03 2015, 10:53

    Hi Jason,

    I'm Type 1 and used to do rowing which was very intensive.

    What did you do before going low-carb? I found that aerobic exercise would very gradually bring glucose levels down (so running and the equivalent) whereas anaerobic exercise (heavy weights, sprinting) would actually raise my blood sugars.

    I haven't done any sustained hard core exercise for a while (I just do short morning sprint type exercises and go running occasionally) and have not found any issues with exercise on low carb.

    I think that aerobic should be fine; if  you are in ketosis then the implication is that you should have better long term stamina without the lows, anaerobic might need extra insulin - see how you go and what happens.

    I'm not sure what the Aikido would be?

    I think people can get a bit obsessed with the minutiae of blood sugars whilst exercising. My advice would be that you want to mimic your normal control; i.e. not too high and not too low.  

    Best

    Dillinger

    P.s. on only a very slightly relevant point have a look at this; this is the man that taught Eddie how to play ping pong and Paul how to light a cigarette...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1sS1kVAvA

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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Tue Feb 03 2015, 14:45

    Thanks Dillinger,

    Mostly I'm worried about going hypo. Perhaps I'll try going to 120 and seeing at 30 minutes (about when I'd need to worry about it) am going too low. Aikido is not super-intensive, but it's fairly constant movement with lots of rolling. So I guess it's about the intensity of light jogging for 90 minutes.

    I'm pausing Aikido entirely this week while I adjust a bit (just started on Saturday) -- that seems sensible. To you too?

    Thanks again!
    Jason
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by mo1905 on Tue Feb 03 2015, 18:33

    Hi, sorry I'm late to this thread. Dillinger has provided some good advice so far. It's so easy to become obsessed with BG numbers and hypo's than many diabetics on insulin are scared to exercise at all ! The huge benefits to be gained from regular exercise far outweighs the possible risk of a hypo in the initial experimental stages. I'm guessing you have a BG meter and strips ? This is your best tool initially to gauge how exercise affects your levels.
    Certain types of exercise will usually affect your levels differently. A good rule of thumb is low intensity aerobic workouts will lower levels whilst weights, competition or high intensity workouts generally raise BG levels. This is why testing is essential. Test before, during and after exercise. If I know I am going to have a decent gym session, I would usually reduce my bolus insulin from previous meal. Example, breakfast I usually inject 4 units. If I know I'm going to the gym mid morning, I'd reduce this to 2 units. You need to find your own levels. Also, always ensure you have a snack available, some nuts or similar and some fast acting carbs in case of hypo.
    I work out at least 3 times a week and never suffer a hypo. I manage this by testing to ensure I know how my body reacts.
    Please ask if you have any more specific questions. Good luck with exercise and let us know how you get on.


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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Tue Feb 03 2015, 19:26

    Hi,

    Thanks for the response, but I'm guessing my question might be unclear.

    I'm already exercising 4-5 times / week doing martial arts, but I'm right now transitioning to LCHF.

    BEFORE LCHF, I've targeted around 150 bg to exercise and I check my BG every 30 minutes or so to avoid hypo. This works fine.

    However, since I'm going LCHF, should I target a lower exercise target BG? As I understand it, I should be becoming more resilient to lows, right? And...how long does this transition take, if I'm understanding it right?

    Thanks!
    Jason
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by mo1905 on Tue Feb 03 2015, 23:09

    Sorry Jason, I understand. No, no need to target lower BG levels. The trick here I think is to reduce carbs gradually to ensure your body becomes accustomed to utilising fat rather than carbs as preferred fuel. Continue testing regularly and don't let fear of hypo restrict exercise.


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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Wed Feb 04 2015, 15:12

    So the one thing that always struck me as disconcerting...Do I really need to be up at 150+ to avoid hypo during exercise on LCHF? Between the period of bringing up BG before exercise, exercise, then waiting for it to come down, it's probably abnormally high 3 hours / day, 4 days / week....

    Even with testing every 30 minutes during exercise, on my previous (normal carb) diet, my BG could drop 40 points in 15 minutes or so, so it's been a necessity to keep it about 150 at least, then add sugar during the workout continually.

    I keep seeing mentions of not needing to jack up the BG with sugar nearly as much before exercise on LCHF. Am I misunderstanding?



    Thanks again, y'all!
    Jas.
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by Dillinger on Wed Feb 04 2015, 15:16

    Hi Jason,

    I wouldn't put it up that high. Just keep some glucose tablets with you and have a look every now and then.

    When I was doing lots of anaerobic training for rowing I don't recall ever front loading my glucose levels. I agree with you; one of the benefits of exercise is that it will bring your bloods down so it seem perverse to put them up again in response.

    You've got to manage lows but I wouldn't be overly worried about it.

    Best

    Dillinger

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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Wed Feb 04 2015, 15:39

    Thanks! I'll let you know how it goes...

    Cheers,
    Jason
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by mo1905 on Wed Feb 04 2015, 17:21

    @jlecount wrote:So the one thing that always struck me as disconcerting...Do I really need to be up at 150+ to avoid hypo during exercise on LCHF?  Between the period of bringing up BG before exercise, exercise, then waiting for it to come down, it's probably abnormally high 3 hours / day, 4 days / week....

    Even with testing every 30 minutes during exercise, on my previous (normal carb) diet, my BG could drop 40 points in 15 minutes  or so, so it's been a necessity to keep it about 150 at least, then add sugar during the workout continually.

    I keep seeing mentions of not needing to jack up the BG with sugar nearly as much before exercise on LCHF.  Am I misunderstanding?



    Thanks again, y'all!
    Jas.

    BG levels of 150 ( 8.5 in UK ) is probably the highest I'd like to be before exercise. As Dillinger says, regular testing is the answer, you'll soon find out for example a 60min cardio session may drop you X amount. Better to reduce insulin rather than having to snack just so you can work out. This website is pretty good and has lots of tips & advice on diabetes and sport.

    http://www.runsweet.com


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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Wed Feb 04 2015, 17:34

    Thanks -- sounds like it's just going to be a new phase of trail-and-error to see how LCHF effects my exercise routine.

    I'll check out that site -- thanks for the link.

    Cheers,
    Jason
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by Jan1 on Wed Feb 11 2015, 13:08

    @jlecount wrote:Thanks -- sounds like it's just going to be a new phase of trail-and-error to see how LCHF effects my exercise routine.  

    I'll check out that site -- thanks for the link.

    Cheers,
    Jason

    May be a bit too soon but just wondered how things were going?

    Take Care and .....

    All the best Jan

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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Wed Feb 11 2015, 22:07

    Hi there,

    Things are going well. Generally I've been targeting 50g/day and that seems to keep me moderately ketotic. My energy has been decent, which has been a surprise -- I expected more 'ketogenic flu' symptoms, which I've not had. No complaints however!

    It's been a challenge eating enough fat to replace the carbs I'm not having but am adjusting.

    As far as exercise, I took a week off from Aikido to figure out the new rhythm. Yesterday I went back to my first class -- ended up going high (170 / 9.4) after eating a very small coconut milk smoothie (apx 10gms carbs.) So I'll keep lowering that until I get around 130 / 7.2 stable. At that point, I may or may not choose to try to reduce that lower.

    Thanks for asking!
    Jason
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by mo1905 on Thu Feb 12 2015, 12:23

    Thanks for the update Jason, a 9.4 is a little high but you're getting there :-)


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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Thu Feb 12 2015, 18:13

    Getting closer! Today I started Aikido at 118 (6.5), took 4g of glucose and finished class without taking more at 151 (8.4) For my next class, if I'm around 120 or so, I won't bother with the extra glucose, just keep checking.

    I'm definitely seeing that my BG is more stable during class. Previously (before LCHF) my BG would drop about 40 points ever 15-20 minutes. Now I'm seeing actually a rise in BG during class! Very, very useful and so far much easier to manage...

    Is this the general experience of others who exercise on LCHF -- a greatly stabilized BG level?

    Cheers,
    Jason
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by Jan1 on Thu Feb 12 2015, 19:33

    Great to hear from you Jason ........ alas as I am not a diabetic I cannot comment on BG levels but I'm sure there are others here who can.

    Great to hear that things are progressing well for you.

    Keep in touch as your experiences help you - and others.  sunny

    Many thanks and .....

    All the best Jan
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by mo1905 on Thu Feb 12 2015, 22:37

    @jlecount wrote:Getting closer!  Today I started Aikido at 118 (6.5), took 4g of glucose and finished class without taking more at 151 (8.4)  For my next class, if I'm around 120 or so, I won't bother with the extra glucose, just keep checking.

    I'm definitely seeing that my BG is more stable during class.  Previously (before LCHF) my BG would drop about 40 points ever 15-20 minutes.  Now I'm seeing actually a rise in BG during class!  Very, very useful and so far much easier to manage...

    Is this the general experience of others who exercise on LCHF -- a greatly stabilized BG level?

    Cheers,
    Jason

    My levels are generally stable but I tested often to guage how my body reacts to certain activities. With experience, your control will become better and you will be able to predict quite accurately your own BG levels and act accordingly.


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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by Mrs Vimes on Sat Feb 14 2015, 11:37

    Hi Mo, hi Jason, I rarely eat now for exercise. I have an increase in sugars for HIIT stuff and weights (nothing dramatic now) and a reduction for endurance stuff. Again nothing dramatic.
    This LCHF makes it much more controllable. I'm also in the pump and can reduce basal or increase depending on the activity I know I'll be doing.
    Like Mo I check sugars throughout the activities.

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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by jlecount on Thu Feb 19 2015, 16:09

    Yeah, what I'm now seeing as a trend is really a) interesting and different than on carbs and b) handy is that I can start class with a BG around 100 / 5.5 and it rises to around 130 / 6.6 during class, then I can take a unit adjustment at the end of class....

    So far it's greatly more stable than when using carbs -- very pleased! In all activities, not just exercise, my BG is a lot more stable than it has been.

    Jason
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    Re: keeping BG in a safe range during exercise as a type-1?

    Post by mo1905 on Thu Feb 19 2015, 17:54

    That's decent control there Jason. Lowering carbs makes control much easier as less margin for error with no huge fluctuations.


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