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    Fibre - where do you stand?

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    Xyz
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    Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Xyz on Wed Aug 20 2014, 23:27

    How do you feel about fibre on a low carb diet?


    Last edited by Xyz on Fri Jan 23 2015, 21:11; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : No longer want a presence on the forum)
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    mo1905
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by mo1905 on Wed Aug 20 2014, 23:31

    I still eat wholegrain fresh bread ( Sainsburys ) and porridge. I don't eat a lot and I guess I'm fortunate in that I can inject to cover the carbs but because they are low GI, I tolerate them quite well anyway.


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    Type1, Humalog and Solostar, Metformin, Lisinopril ( BP ), last HbA1C 41 ( 5.9% ), 20th Oct 2014, HbA1C 43 ( 6.1% ) 9th Mar 2015.
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    Jan1
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Jan1 on Wed Aug 20 2014, 23:44

    Hi Brunneria

    Good to hear you "thrive on low carb". I've had no problems living the low carb high fat lifestyle. I know many include ground flax seed in their menu plans, which is a good source of fibre. Broccoli is a good source of fibre and contains almost 5 times as much vitamin C as potato, it also contains 8 times as much calcium as potato and contains almost 2.5 as much dietary fibre as potato, so a great vegetable to help out with any fibre issues.
    How do other members handle this?


    All the best Jan

    Xyz
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Xyz on Wed Aug 20 2014, 23:52

    Should have said earlier - green smoothies are great as fibre source - I just don't want to have them all the time, especially in cold weather.
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    spittinchips
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by spittinchips on Wed Aug 20 2014, 23:52

    Fibre is an interesting one - I personally find that the plumbing works fine if eating enough fat. Anecdotal reports of populations such as the early Mongolians suggests that lack of green matter or All-Bran wasn't a problem for them either.

    I read a paper a while ago that suggested increased fibre for those who were chronically constipated didn't help - all it did was increase faecal bulk (read - made the big lump of poo inside them bigger). Can't remember where the paper was - it didn't really provide any solutions, just observations.

    But in saying that, I'd guess that if someone wasn't very low carb (i.e. moderate fat), that some psyllium husks or similar might be required every now and then.

    Cheers.
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    Indy51
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Indy51 on Thu Aug 21 2014, 00:22

    Dr Briffa posted along the lines of Spittinchips observation a while back:
    http://www.drbriffa.com/2013/03/05/study-finds-dietary-fibre-is-more-likely-to-be-cause-of-rather-than-a-cure-for-constipation-and-other-bowel-symptoms/

    I don't normally have problems with LCHF because I do eat a lot of veggies like broccoli, cabbage, etc. I also try to stay well hydrated and take magnesium supplement daily which also helps with "regularity", as does taking a pre/probiotic supplement.

    I used to suffer with bad IBS/SIBO/dysbios symptoms before diagnosis and removing grains from my diet only improved my symptoms. I also find some kinds of fibre (eg Metamucil) only makes things worse, not better.

    I think everybody is unique as to the amount of fibre they need and/or can tolerate.

    Another interesting blogpost from Dr Briffa about fibre and bowel cancer:
    http://www.drbriffa.com/2013/03/28/constipation-can-cause-colon-cancer-probably-not/



    Xyz
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Xyz on Thu Aug 21 2014, 06:58

    Fascinating articles, @Indy. Thank you.

    It is interesting the point Briffa makes about the difference between soluble and insoluble fibre. Because of course bran, whole grains etc are insoluble, whereas fruit and veg are mainly soluble.

    Unfortunately, the studies he quoted seem to focus on the high carb sources for their 'high fibre diet'.

    It makes me realise that it is the soluble fibre that seems to help me far more than insoluble. Although my muesli/fruit/yoghurt breakfasts made for a happy bunny. But I've moved to lower carb choices now, with other benefits.
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Scandichic on Thu Aug 21 2014, 08:07

    Brunneria wrote:Fascinating articles, @Indy.  Thank you.

    It is interesting the point Briffa makes about the difference between soluble and insoluble fibre.  Because of course bran, whole grains etc are insoluble, whereas fruit and veg are mainly soluble.

    Unfortunately, the studies he quoted seem to focus on the high carb sources for their 'high fibre diet'.

    It makes me realise that it is the soluble fibre that seems to help me far more than insoluble.  Although my muesli/fruit/yoghurt breakfasts made for a happy bunny.  But I've moved to lower carb choices now, with other benefits.
    Since eating LCHF I have found that my body is a lot happier and I am no longer uncomfortable when I go or have wind issues. Mark Sissons wrote something very interesting about fibre, according to hubbie. Apparently some of it causes tearing in the intestinal wall which can lead to bowel cancer. Here's the link to his site! http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz3B0YWvvW4

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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by cold ethyl on Thu Aug 21 2014, 09:59

    I do find I'm a lot more bunged than I was on high carb diet - strangely I found upping my Metformin to three from 2 made this worse so I'm having a little experiment and gone back to 2 before tackling GP.
    I've ordered some Sukrin bread mix to see if that helps and I have flaxseed in my yogurt. I can tolerate pulses so try and include then a few times a week. You say green smoothies help so in winter couldn't you make green soup fir a similar effect? Broccoli, asparagus and leek soup is lovely especially with sprinkle of cheese on top. I make it from all the stalks and unloved veg in the fridge and you could add a couple of tablespoons green split peas for additional fibre.

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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Xyz on Thu Aug 21 2014, 10:51

    Good point about the green soup!

    And yes, I think we're all very different.  I'm currently eating an astonishing amount of fat   Shocked   and I always drink masses of water, but they don't make any impact at all.

    The veg (not salad) seems to be the key, for me.  Which makes it a bit of hassle for brekkie and packed lunches   Neutral 

    So Lepicol is my friend.
    Brilliant stuff.

    Last night I had a smoothie made of
    6 strawberries
    Dash cream
    Teasp xylitol
    Teasp green n blacks cocoa powder
    Water
    Teasp lepicol
    All blended together, incl probiotics.

    Delicious desert and problem solver all in one.
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    graham64
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by graham64 on Thu Aug 21 2014, 22:20

    I don't have a problem with constipation since going low carb. I occasionally use milled flax seed which is a very high source of fibre.

    I get this from Waitrose it's 17.9g fibre per 100g

    In this tasty mix flaxseed has been milled and blended with a range of healthy nuts to provide selenium, magnesium, zinc, vitamin B1 and Iron. We have added Co-Enzyme Q10, which is a highly effective antioxidant that contributes to the production of energy in the body.


    Milled Flaxseed Almonds Brazil Nuts Walnuts & Co-Enzyme Q10


    http://www.linwoodshealthfoods.com/uk/shop/milled-flaxseed-almonds-brazil-nuts-walnuts-and-co-enzyme-q10.html


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes

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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Guest on Thu Aug 21 2014, 22:30

    I drink natural coconut water , but need lots of vegetables and a black coffee....
    I used to live in the powder room ,,now not so much .... Embarassed 
    Water melon helps .....but shall we say things are not as frequent as they used to be .....
    I do love my porridge on cold days ....with almond milk ...that does help
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by zand on Fri Aug 22 2014, 08:36

    I eat lots of veggies and that suits me fine. I need to remember to drink enough water as I often forget. So no, LCHF isn't a problem for me in this way. However some of the other lower carb diets which didn't allow fruit or veg for a while did cause me problems with constipation. That's why I'm sticking with LCHF because you can adapt it to suit you and your body. Like Indy, I also take a magnesium supplement sometimes which helps too.
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    clearviews
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by clearviews on Fri Aug 22 2014, 14:14

    I used to focus on getting the fibre in until a couple of years ago when I attended a day seminar which had amongst the speakers, Jimmy Moore (Livin' laVida and Cholesterol Clarity) and Christine Cronau (The Fat Revolution). There were a few dieticians sitting behind us and at the end they became really upset that there seemed to be little mention of fibre in the diets and it seemed to be fat, fat and fat!
    From that time on I began to up my fat intake especially with coconut oil. Fibre took a back seat and became a garnish really. Today my ideal is about 70% fat 25% protein and the rest would be fibre. I have had no issues with 'uncomfortable consequences' at all.
    Nutritional ketosis is the terminology being coined now I think.
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Andy12345 on Fri Aug 22 2014, 14:37

    before low carbing my trips to the little (fat) boys room were either extremely urgent and extremely frequent or non existent, i would go for days without going, then go all day and it was a little too easy to go, I'm not sure if this was ibs as i never told my doc, in fact i never knew my doc, but since low carbing its all gone away, which is strange as i always assumed it was the amount of fat i ate that made my tummy the way it was, but obviously it was the carbs, i used to sprinkle milled flax on my yogurt for brekkie but haven't been to buy it in ages and haven't noticed any difference with the less fibre, so i suppose i would say, i ignore fibre

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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Guest on Fri Aug 22 2014, 15:57

    I believe more bowel movements may be a symptom of diabetes ....
    So perhaps they do seem less as our body changes .

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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Pasha on Wed Aug 05 2015, 16:57

    Size and shape counts, this table can help you sort out your particular problem [ sometimes ]

    http://www.oxypowder.com/bristol-stool-scale.html

    For me the "Bristol Stool' will never have the same meaning again.
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    Eddie
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Eddie on Wed Aug 05 2015, 17:27

    @Pasha wrote:Size and shape counts, this table can help you sort out your particular problem [ sometimes ]

    http://www.oxypowder.com/bristol-stool-scale.html

    For me the "Bristol Stool' will never have the same meaning again.

    This will make you larf or cry. Posted by a dietitian on the dietitians week annual propaganda, their idea of healthy grub.


    On a more serious note, the so called recommended fibre intake has no scientific backing. The same as the five a day, so called safe units of alcohol, the BMI numbers etc etc. That being said, most low carbers I know have no problems at all with bowel movements etc. Since becoming a low carbing diabetic my intake of non starchy high fibre foods such as green vegetables has at least doubled, compared to the rest of my adult life.

    The bottom line for a diabetic, if you feel good you probably are good. If you are happy with your weight, have good BG numbers and a good lipid profile, you can't be going too far wrong in my opinion.


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !

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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Pasha on Wed Aug 05 2015, 17:45

    @Eddie wrote:
    @Pasha wrote:Size and shape counts, this table can help you sort out your particular problem [ sometimes ]

    http://www.oxypowder.com/bristol-stool-scale.html

    For me the "Bristol Stool' will never have the same meaning again.

    This will make you larf or cry. Posted by a dietitian on the dietitians week annual propaganda, their idea of healthy grub.


    On a more serious note, the so called recommended fibre intake has no scientific backing. The same as the five a day, so called safe units of alcohol, the BMI numbers etc etc. That being said, most low carbers I know have no problems at all with bowel movements etc. Since becoming a low carbing diabetic my intake of non starchy high fibre foods such as green vegetables has at least doubled, compared to the rest of my adult life.

    The bottom line for a diabetic, if you feel good you probably are good. If you are happy with your weight, have good BG numbers and a good lipid profile, you can't be going too far wrong in my opinion.

    I think the fibre issue depends very much on the individual. I have gone down to 12-15 grams of carbs a day, all from vegetables. At that level I experienced "difficulties' . When I upped the carbs to 20 grams a day things sorted themselves out well. I meant this more as a guide for those starting out ex the Atkins induction period , as in the beginning the advice can be a bit confusing. Some say just get enough fats , others say fibre is more important. I rely on ground flax and above ground grown vegetables to "decorate the cake" [Yes I had a good laugh at the picture you enclosed ]
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Eddie on Wed Aug 05 2015, 18:43

    @Pasha wrote:
    @Eddie wrote:
    @Pasha wrote:Size and shape counts, this table can help you sort out your particular problem [ sometimes ]

    http://www.oxypowder.com/bristol-stool-scale.html

    For me the "Bristol Stool' will never have the same meaning again.

    This will make you larf or cry. Posted by a dietitian on the dietitians week annual propaganda, their idea of healthy grub.


    On a more serious note, the so called recommended fibre intake has no scientific backing. The same as the five a day, so called safe units of alcohol, the BMI numbers etc etc. That being said, most low carbers I know have no problems at all with bowel movements etc. Since becoming a low carbing diabetic my intake of non starchy high fibre foods such as green vegetables has at least doubled, compared to the rest of my adult life.

    The bottom line for a diabetic, if you feel good you probably are good. If you are happy with your weight, have good BG numbers and a good lipid profile, you can't be going too far wrong in my opinion.

    I think the fibre issue depends very much on the individual. I have gone down to 12-15 grams of carbs a day, all from vegetables. At that level I experienced "difficulties' . When I upped the carbs to 20 grams a day things sorted themselves out well. I meant this more as a guide for those starting out ex the Atkins induction period , as in the beginning the advice can be a bit confusing. Some say just get enough fats , others say fibre is more important. I rely on ground flax and above ground grown vegetables to "decorate the cake" [Yes I had a good laugh at the picture you enclosed ]

    "decorate the cake" That's a very polite way of describing a good dump, far more civilised than some of my usual expressions that appals Jan. Let's face it we all do it. If you don't eat, you don't shit, and if you don't shit, you die. rofl

    OK, getting me coat.


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by graham64 on Wed Aug 05 2015, 22:40

    @Pasha wrote:Size and shape counts, this table can help you sort out your particular problem [ sometimes ]

    http://www.oxypowder.com/bristol-stool-scale.html

    For me the "Bristol Stool' will never have the same meaning again.

    We were always told that among many other problems that LCHF would lead to constipation due to a lack fibre in our diet :shock:This has proved to be another myth perpetuated by the anti LC fraternity.

    Since going LC I'm a once a day first thing in the morning man I'm a super pooper (to much information) and thanks to your link Pasha I now find I'm type 3 pooper cheers


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Indy51
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Indy51 on Thu Aug 06 2015, 00:02

    Maybe that should be super duper pooper, @graham64 tmi

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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by Pasha on Thu Aug 06 2015, 05:45

    @graham64 wrote:
    @Pasha wrote:Size and shape counts, this table can help you sort out your particular problem [ sometimes ]

    http://www.oxypowder.com/bristol-stool-scale.html

    For me the "Bristol Stool' will never have the same meaning again.

    We were always told that among many other problems that LCHF would lead to constipation due to a lack fibre in our diet :shock:This has proved to be another myth perpetuated by the anti LC fraternity.

    Since going LC I'm a once a day first thing in the morning man I'm a super pooper (to much information) and thanks to your link Pasha I now find I'm type 3 pooper cheers

    Ha!!! a number three, just a tad more water to make it a "smoothy" is advised.
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by mo1905 on Thu Aug 06 2015, 08:51

    Great link lol ! On first click, I thought I was in a sweet shop ! It ranges from Revels, Ferrero Rocher and then right up to the slightly melted Mars Bar lol :-)


    _________________
    Type1, Humalog and Solostar, Metformin, Lisinopril ( BP ), last HbA1C 41 ( 5.9% ), 20th Oct 2014, HbA1C 43 ( 6.1% ) 9th Mar 2015.
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    Re: Fibre - where do you stand?

    Post by zand on Thu Aug 06 2015, 09:43

    @mo1905 wrote:Great link lol ! On first click, I thought I was in a sweet shop ! It ranges from Revels, Ferrero Rocher and then right up to the slightly melted Mars Bar lol :-)

    "Slightly melted Mars bar" - reminds me of something that was once said about Mick Jagger ........ Shocked

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