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    Ali's fasting progress.....

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    Jan1
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Jan1 on Wed Jan 14 2015, 17:53

    Ali you've made fantastic progress .... many thanks for keeping us all up to date.

    All the best Jan
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    AliB
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Wed Jan 14 2015, 18:54

    Thanks Jan.

    Just wanted to add. When you fast for an extended period, your body revisits old issues. Sometimes you get an exacerbation of previous ailments. It can be disconcerting, but it's normal. The body finally has the opportunity to deal with past issues it couldn't repair, or repair properly before.

    When it can't deal with it properly it has to do a bit of running repair. That means that when it gets the chance to deal with it properly, it has to unpick and restitch everything and finally do a complete and thorough repair.

    The body cannot repair organic damage, but there are few diseases that cannot benefit from a fast. One woman I read of was in a wheelchair after sustaining a spinal injury as a child. She had also been very poorly for many years. After a long fast, although her spine damage was irrepairable and she was still in the wheelchair, she regained her health and strength and even operated a business for many years. I've read positive experiences of people with heart, lung, kidney, eye, skin, liver and a host of other problems, including diabetes.
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    Andy12345
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Andy12345 on Wed Jan 14 2015, 20:02

    Fascinating, I can't say it sounds like a good idea, but your determination is staggering and your bg numbers and weight loss make it very hard to deny

    Following your progress with massive interest and respect Ali
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Wed Jan 14 2015, 23:08

    Thanks Andy.

    People now are fearful of fasting, but it is as ancient as humankind.  Whilst Allopathic medicine has managed to quash it in the UK and US and turn it into 'quackery', there are many sanitoriums and clinics that practise fasting techniques all over Europe and elsewhere, where it is held in high regard.  Germany, France, Hungary, Poland are just a few.

    It strikes me that the Medical Profession could well be relieving itself of a lot of its 'health' burden if it applied some of the ideas.

    There is an entrenched belief that sick people need to be fed 'to keep their strength up'.  In reality, when a sick person has no appetite, the body is saying it doesn't want food. It cannot heal and digest at the same time.  If food is forced down, the vital energy cannot digest it, so it sits fermenting and rotting in the stomach, probably poisoning the body.  If forced to digest it against its will, it then has to halt the healing process in order to deal with it, prolonging the repair process.

    It's so logical when you think about it.

    The first person in modern times in the US to promote fasting was an Allopathic doctor at the end of the 1800s. He got so sick and no drugs could cure him that he gave up eating and waited to die. To his surprise, 10 days later he started to feel better. He kept going for 42 days in all, and ended up healthier than he'd been as a child!
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    Andy12345
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Andy12345 on Thu Jan 15 2015, 00:16

    All sounds good Smile

    My one reservation about listening to our bodies is the strength of our minds to fool our bodies, anorexics for example and other eating disorders, I know a lady just dx type1 who is stick thin and while I was talking to her about food, she said she never feels hungry and has to force herself to eat at all, in those circumstances it can't be a good idea to listen to our bodies, so how do we know when our body is talking or our minds tricking our bodies into not wanting something.... If that makes sense
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    Dillinger
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Dillinger on Thu Jan 15 2015, 10:23

    I'm also trying to drop a bit of weight and am doing the 5:2 fast but with actual no food fasting on the 2 days a week.

    I drink coffee and water and take vitamins/meds but that's it. I'd estimate that because of milk in coffee I probably drink about 200 ml of milk on the fasting days so perhaps 8 carbs a day. Getting mild ketones which I'm surprised by; would have thought that they would be higher.

    I think my skin has improved on my face (less lines) and my knee which I twisted about 3 weeks ago and was painful seems to be less painful on the fast days and then regresses a bit when I eat again. This could be just that it's healing normally though.

    I didn't weigh myself before I started so won't know how much I've lost until Saturday but I like this approach. I'm not hungry at all apart from mild hunger in the early evening.

    Certainly cheaper than following a diet book!

    Best

    Dillinger
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    AliB
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Thu Jan 15 2015, 12:25

    The lady you know who is stick thin Andy is obviously not well. It's likely her stomach can't digest properly so it is in permanent shut-down mode.

    Whilst it would be difficult for her to fast because she has so little resources, it could well be what her body needs. That or maybe some kind of re-feeding programme. It does quite likely depend also on what kind of food she eats when she does eat. Maybe she would benefit from LCHF....
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by yoly on Thu Jan 15 2015, 12:50

    What I find more effective and easier to do is a reduced window for eating. Either skipping breakfast or diner just eating on a 8 hour window. Doing it as many times in the week as you can. It can be sustain for long periods. Diabetes and losing weight need strategies that can be sustained long term and that can be easily incorporated to your routine. Doing LCHF helps a lot since fat will sustain you longer with less hunger. Also the more stable blood glucose and less insulin spikes will help reduce hunger and binge eating. Try to keep track of what you eat for a few days before and after you star the regimen to see how the strategy works on you.
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    Andy12345
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Andy12345 on Thu Jan 15 2015, 16:17

    @AliB wrote:The lady you know who is stick thin Andy is obviously not well.  It's likely her stomach can't digest properly so it is in permanent shut-down mode.  

    Whilst it would be difficult for her to fast because she has so little resources, it could well be what her body needs.  That or maybe some kind of re-feeding programme.  It does quite likely depend also on what kind of food she eats when she does eat.  Maybe she would benefit from LCHF....



    lchf was a brick wall Sad she is currently very depressed and according to her husband my friend, she is hardly leaving the house and sleeps all day, whilst being terrified of hypos she is running her bloods way too high, I've tried talking to her and encouraging her to seek the help of forumites and explaining how she can lead a full and happy life etc etc, but its way above my pay grade
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    AliB
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Thu Jan 15 2015, 17:07

    I found that eating high fat stops my body burning its own stored fat. Fasting, or eating very low calorie with very little fat seems to be the best way to force it to burn the body fat, and it is working.

    I have the added problem of the worms, and am intent on starving them out. It's not just about the weight. I very rarely would have breakfast, but even on just two meals per day the sugar levels were too high, the insulin sensitivity was almost non-existent, the weight wouldn't budge an inch and the worms were having a field day.

    I know it's extreme, but isn't obesity and diabetes also extreme? Sometimes we have to do extreme things in order to sort things out. After all, HFLC was regarded as very extreme at one point.

    I guess we all have to find what works best for us. Despite being diabetic, we all have different issues and 'complications'.

    I am not trying to 'control' my diabetes, I'm actually trying to cure it. To clear out all the years of accumulated crud and toxins. If I'd been born with it, there would be no point trying to cure it, but my take is that I wasn't always diabetic. In theory, what is aquired should be able to be un-aquired. Sometimes the damage is too great to be rectified, but heck, what do I have to lose by trying?

    Andy, I am so sorry about your friend's wife. If she still eats wheat, it very likely is a cause of her depression. As it has been highly hybridised over the years and unlike the ancient 14-chromosome strains now has 42 chromosomes, there are several 'foreign' proteins in modern wheat that affect the brain. Depression and brain-fog are two very common symptoms (these are my husband's symptoms when he gets 'glutened' - the 'black dog' descends and brain-fog so thick you can cut it with a knife!)

    Whilst in many it can cause obesity, there are some people who cannot gain weight whilst it is in their diet. It is hidden in so many commercial foods as thngs like hydrolysed protein, dextrose, barley malt extract, etc. You have to be 100% free of it to know if it is the culprit or not otherwise any test is scuppered. The best way is to avoid commercially made stuff altogether.

    She could perhaps ask her doctor for a Celiac Disease test, but very many of them come back as a false negative result (often due to a suppressed immune response). My doctor now knows that she may need to send people she suspects of Celiac for more tests over several weeks before a positive test will pop up, but most doctors are unaware of that. A negative result does not mean that Celiac isn't present. If she gets a negative test (only an antibody reading over 10 counts positive), it's worth asking what the result number is. Any reading over zero is positive for a gluten antibody response.

    Even if she couldn't cope with getting on to LCHF, getting off gluten (but not substituting with high priced gluten-free garbage from the supermarkets) might be a start to getting her 'sanity' back and looking into LCHF later on.
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Andy12345 on Thu Jan 15 2015, 17:25

    Thankyou! I'm going to try again to come here, I'll ter her we've been talking about her and to read this thread, thankyou!
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by mo1905 on Thu Jan 15 2015, 17:56

    @Andy12345 wrote:All sounds good Smile

    My one reservation about listening to our bodies is the strength of our minds to fool our bodies, anorexics for example and other eating disorders, I know a lady just dx type1 who is stick thin and while I was talking to her about food, she said she never feels hungry and has to force herself to eat at all, in those circumstances it can't be a good idea to listen to our bodies, so how do we know when our body is talking or our minds tricking our bodies into not wanting something.... If that makes sense

    Makes total sense Andy. I would just say that "listen to your bodies" is generally for those without an eating disorder. They view food not as nutrition but as a sort of poison. They also have a very distorted image of their own body. When looking in a mirror, instead of seeing a slim person, they'll see an overweight person.


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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Sun Jan 18 2015, 15:51

    Ended the fast on Friday night with a little tomato broth.

    I'd done 9 days, but was getting weak and a bit dizzy so felt I'd gone far enough with that one. I think any subsequent ones I would limit to around 5 days at most. I could possibly go further in a supervised clinic, but can't afford that.

    I lost 23lbs over all, although that will undoubtedly reduce a bit now I am eating again, and having fat, which seems to block my body's ability to burn it's own.

    I'd like to find out a bit more about Margaret's 4-week fast on Dr. Fung's blog and what she had. He recommends coffee with cream, broth, herb teas, etc. on Fast days. She's ended up Fasting every other day.

    I still have to take insulin, but this does seem to have improved my insulin sensitivity a bit.

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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by mo1905 on Sun Jan 18 2015, 19:13

    Has your insulin to carb ratio changed Ali ? I think 9 days is pretty impressive and the weight loss is amazing. Please keep us updated with further progress :-)


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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Sun Jan 18 2015, 20:42

    I don't know, Mo, i'm having little carb, but whereas before virtually any carb was seemingly not affected by the insulin, at least now it's bringing what I do have down to a better level.

    I had a juice this morning with greens, carrot, beetroot, and a few grapes and the insulin dealt with that ok. That suggests to me the insulin response is improving a bit. It will undoubtedly take time. I may never be able to dump the insulin, but at least if I can get it to work better that will be a vast improvement.
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Jan1 on Mon Jan 19 2015, 17:35

    @AliB just want to say well done on your weight loss - what an interesting journey / story it has been to follow so far ....... and I'm sure you will have more to update us with in the coming week as things progress.

    Many thanks and ........

    All the best Jan
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Tue Jan 20 2015, 12:09

    Well, have been trying to limit my food to smoothies, salad, soups, etc., apart from an odd foray into a small chunk of my son in law's bacon, chorizo and cheese omelette yesterday, but I have had some coconut oil the last couple of days.

    Weight has gone back up 4-5lbs.  That's expected, as my bowel was empty during the fast.  In the immortal words of Dawn French, "it's all poo".......

    I am trying to find a blender that breaks the cellulose down better in smoothies.  Nothing worse than a bird's nest floating on your nice healthy drink.  I'd love a Vitamix, but they cost more than a house here in Wales......

    I've been looking at a Kenwood Chef Titanium, but am yet to establish whether the blender is up to that job.  My ancient Chef blender doesn't chop very fine, neither does my cheap blender from Lidl.  Why can't anyone make a machine that does everything. Instead of having 25 different appliances clogging up the kitchen?
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Jan1 on Tue Jan 20 2015, 16:51

    AliB said "Why can't anyone make a machine that does everything. Instead of having 25 different appliances clogging up the kitchen?"

    But some people just HAVE to have the latest appliance - it looks nice on the side. I think the most favourite MUST HAVE at the moment, for all those that must have, is the Nutribullet !!  The marketing and sales drive has been going strong on this.

    My kitchen side looks decidedly empty to some you may see...... but we get by.

    But I digress - sorry - think your progress is going well .....

    Thanks for keeping us updated

    All the best Jan
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Fri Jan 23 2015, 13:33

    Thinking about Dr. Kendrick's article does make me wonder about Ketosis and acidity.

    One thing that I picked up in the fasting thing is that, acidity often rises in the body, at least for a while after you start fasting.  If the body is releasing a lot of fat, it could potentially trigger high acidity.

    As I have commented under his article, the only way I can release fat is to fast, or eat very low calorie, but I do feel quite acidic when I do that.  Would a temporary plant-based diet be better for a while as the plants may help to offset the acidity, I wonder?

    I'd like to know more about this, and do more research on it.
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by mo1905 on Fri Jan 23 2015, 14:23

    I've never gone down the ketosis route but I know a few here have. Hopefully they will comment as to whether they suffered with acidity and how they overcame it.


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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Mon Feb 02 2015, 01:59

    I have just finished reading Dr. Joel Fuhrman's 'Fasting and Eating for Health' book, and am awaiting his 'the end of Diabetes' book to arrive.

    I've done a lot of research on fasting, but this book is, in my opinion, one of the best. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/031218719X?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

    Whilst he recommends fasting for heaps of health issues including CVD/heart issues, atherosclerosis, auto-immune diseases, migraines, etc., etc., his regime for treating diabetes is to put people on a low-fat vegetarian diet, incorporating plenty of fresh and cooked vegetables, beans and legumes, fruit, and some grains (usually oats) for a few months to help clear out toxins and weight/visceral fat, then fasting maybe 6 months into the diet.

    He was put on a fast to heal injuries sustained as a young sportsman that wouldn't heal through Allopathic means, and became convinced of it's efficacy at cleansing the body of toxic wastes, and promoting the body's natural healing processes.

    He recognises that drugs do not heal the body. That symptoms are very often the body's way of trying to detox and adding drugs just traps the body into a constant struggle to eliminate its toxic burden. Someone may start off with a pain or migraine etc., as their body tries to eliminate some kind of toxin, but they are then given toxic painkillers, or steroids or whatever, triggering a continuing cycle of drugs, detox and pain. It's a self-perpetuating cycle.

    Only putting food into the body that supports detox rather than food that hinders it helps the body cleanse itself and restore homeostasis.

    Fasting is an extension of that. Not eating puts the body into a continuous cleansing cycle. The more sick a person is, the more likely it is they need to fast.

    His reasoning on not putting T2 diabetics on a fast immediately is because it can lower the metabolism for a while and make further weight loss more difficult. Kind of wish I'd known that before I started, but I didn't have this book then, and hadn't read it anywhere else.

    But weight has stabilised since the fast at just over a stone loss, which wasn't bad for 13 days of fasting overall. I am gradually weaning in to his diet. Trying to limit my insulin to around 20 units per day, although sugar levels don't respond very well to it and are still higher than I am comfortable with.

    I know taking insulin isn't the answer. When I take insulin, my mouth/tongue goes dry. My body obviously doesn't like it.

    I was watching a YouTube video yesterday that I picked up from Dr. kendrick's blog by Dr. Roger Unger about the relationship between insulin and glucagon. That insulin is not really the answer because it isn't the only issue. In the liver, insulin has an immediate effect on glucagon that cannot be replicated by injection. T'was very interesting.

    Anyway, whence t'other book turns up and I've read it, I will enlighten thee. There are quite a few good reviews on Amazin', especially the .com site (over 700!) which is always quite helpful. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0062219987?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00






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    Jan1
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Jan1 on Mon Feb 02 2015, 11:47

    Goodness Ali  Exclamation  I saw the time you posted this ..... in the wee small hours 1.59am. Hope you slept well after.  Smile

    Many thanks for going into such detail and once again putting some interesting views and facts.

    Pleased to hear about your weight loss, you must be pleased. From what you say your insulin may need some adjustment? But I cannot really comment too much on that having had no experience in taking insulin. Will be interesting to hear what others think.

    Once again thanks for keeping us updated.

    Take Care and .......

    All the best Jan
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by mo1905 on Mon Feb 02 2015, 12:53

    Thanks for the update Ali. You mention your BG levels are a little higher than you'd like, what sort of readings are you getting ? Your 20units of insulin, is this basal or bolus or a combination ? Thanks, I'm enjoying following your progress.


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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by Eddie on Mon Feb 02 2015, 16:45

    Well done on the weight loss Ali, I admire your self discipline. I could cut back on the carbs to very low no problem, but strict fasting would do me up in no time.

    All the best Eddie


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Ali's fasting progress.....

    Post by AliB on Mon Feb 02 2015, 20:01

    Actually Eddie, fasting is not that difficult. Hunger goes after a day or two. I actually prefer to fast rather than eat low calorie. Eating just triggers hunger. Not eating, doesn't.

    My sugar levels are hovering around 9 - 10 Mo, but i'm trying not to have any insulin. I don't like it being that high, but whether I have any insulin or not, it doesn't seem to make any difference. I am wondering whether having insulin just ends up triggering more glucagon release. I hope that eventually it will start to lower on its own. It was over 12 when I went to bed last night, but was back down to 9 this morning. I won't let it carry on indefinitely, but I'm not going to panic. I thought I was getting a bit more sensitive to the insulin, but maybe it was just a blip. When Dr. Fuhrman's book on diabetes arrives I will have a better idea of his diet.

    I was late settling down last night, Jan. The worms make it hard for me to settle. Their activity often keeps me awake, so I just sit quietly reading or writing. The internet usually switches off by 11.30, but I think my son has changed that as he has been trying to set up a server.

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