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    Statins and Cholesterol

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    Mud Island Dweller
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    Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mud Island Dweller on Sun Aug 17 2014, 17:14

    Since l started LCHF my cholesterol has gone up, l flatly refuse statins and l have been doing some intense looking into it l have found the following which may be of help to those like me who distrust the things, l realise not everyone is the same so this post is aimed at us pedantic's not those unaffected or happy to take statins (meaning please don't get upset and say they are fine for me):

    The book "Grain Brain" by Dr Pearlmutter was what totally put me off statins...not that l would have taken them before but it also explains a lot in easy speak on how cholesterol works in your body and what statins do.

    First chapter or so is a ground setter but when he gets to statins to scary to touch statins. Brains of altzimer sufferers have low fat and statin makers push that they lower brain fat. As your brain is something like 80%fat. Ditto to Parkinsons....... If kindle or read on computer is easier to go to his links.

    I have started following his advice and another site last few weeks ...cut down animal fats have more extra virgin olive oil chia seeds added hemp (get shelled ones) and flax seed and tumeric.
    l am trying black coffee to cut down on coffee....and cream being main thing but still have berries and cream at lunch. And eat more fish. less meat...and add omega 3 in take omega 6 out

    You only get something like 15 or 20% (sorry not remember exact amount could be less but not more) cholesterol from your food the rest is from the liver but eating a lot of some foods encourage it.

    Apparently higher cholesterol can happen to low carbers and paleo some of us go high on low carb high fat and we can go above considered safety point but by same token no one knows if that is dangerous or not no one had ever done a study a lot are not affected...hence jigging my diet.

    When my nurse first tried to push me she said go on a couple of months then come off l have refused.

    I http://www.onlineconversion.com/cholesterol.htm a lot of sites are different measurements

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(01)05553-2/fulltext, may not apply to you yet but interesting

    cut and paste the following link www.lecturepad.org into your google search if you don't you will not get into the part needed. If you get the site up but may have problems getting in then click on the part that says can loosing weight worsen...(it should download as a PDF)
    If you can get in much better it is PACKED with info. They have a section called Lipadholics anonymous read case 291

    Also it says rapid weight loss pumps up cholesterol which actually makes sense to me l have been having rapid weight loss.

    You will need the conversion link as it is American site and use different measures the converter is brilliant and dead easy.
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    Mrs Vimes
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mrs Vimes on Sun Aug 17 2014, 17:30

    Hi mud island dweller. Exactly the same thing has happened to me. I lost roughly 4 stone on lchf. My cholestoral increased. I then increased my fat intake to stop losing weight. My next cholestoral was mental high.
    The last 6 weeks I have cut down on dairy (gorgeous cream - gutted) and will be going for a cholesterol test in two weeks. Fingers crossed that this will work - I AINT TAKIN NO STATINS.
    Problem is we have been brain washed into low fat that even with evidence to the contrary it still makes me nervous - but not nervous enough when I think of the years of ice cream eating and massive high carb meals before lchf.
    So fingers and everything else crossed- I have also heard that really the first cholestoral test to take notice of is the one 6 months after weight loss has stopped.
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    sanguine
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by sanguine on Sun Aug 17 2014, 17:46

    Hmmm.

    I've lost 2 1/2 stone since March on LCHF and my total cholesterol has gone down from 6.9 to 6.0 with the breakdown as per my sig below. My GP says he would like it to go to 5.0, which is where I'd like it to be too, but I'm not taking statins to do it.

    I wonder what I'm doing differently, if anything?
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mrs Vimes on Sun Aug 17 2014, 17:51

    The thing that I did differently between the two tests was use double cream in coffee (drank a lot) and had it on sugar free jelly. I've read somewhere that if the cholestoral goes up look at decreasing dairy.
    So, sob no cream on my jelly. (This was to stop weight loss)
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    Mud Island Dweller
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mud Island Dweller on Sun Aug 17 2014, 17:55

    I think l am one of those unlucky folks who haven't gone down, this is my breakdown. Mrs Vimes l think 2 weeks is to soon for a retest l have told my dn l will retake it in February this will give a better longer run to adjust myself. And as l told her longer peace without hassle  Laughing 
                     
    6/11/13    LDL 2.3          HDL 1.36      Trig (not noted) Total 5.6                    

    10/02/14  LDL 4.6           HDL 1.78      Trig 0.95           Total 6.8        
     
    10/06/14  LDL 4.5           HDL 1.87      Trig 1.4             Total 7

    Bluetit
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Bluetit on Sun Aug 17 2014, 17:56

    I am like Rod. I have lost 3stones 5lbs since January on low carb but moderate fats. I am not as low carb as some (62g current average) and have increased fats just enough to make up my calories to 1200 for weight loss by ditching all low fat products. I don't overdo the fat, never touch cream, and have only just added back some cheese as I need to increase my calories now. I still eat red meat, bacon, loads of eggs, oily fish and white fish in similar quantities to before. My cholesterol has dropped from the levels it was at diagnosis in January, and my Trigs are a nice 0.7.

    Where does that fit in?

    EDIT as regards timing between tests, my GP told me 3 months at least for cholesterol results to show any significant changes.


    Last edited by Bluetit on Sun Aug 17 2014, 17:59; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : addition)
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    Mrs Vimes
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mrs Vimes on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:03

    The next test is two weeks away hut will actually be 8 weeks from the last one. I think my DN nearly had a stroke when she was going through my test results.
    But my HbA1c was 5.9%. First time ever in the 5% club.
    She said she'd never seen results like that before on someone on a pump. The cgm I wore showed smaller peaks and higher lows if that makes sense because of lc.

    She recommended that I ate more carbs to stop losing weight.

    (I'm type 1 and got on a pump with HbA1c of 6.5% but problems with mad dawn phenomenon)
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    mo1905
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by mo1905 on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:16

    @Bluetit wrote:I am like Rod. I have lost 3stones 5lbs since January on low carb but moderate fats. I am not as low carb as some (62g current average) and have increased fats just enough to make up my calories to 1200 for weight loss by ditching all low fat products. I don't overdo the fat, never touch cream, and have only just added back some cheese as I need to increase my calories now. I still eat red meat, bacon, loads of eggs, oily fish and white fish in similar quantities to before. My cholesterol has dropped from the levels it was at diagnosis in January, and my Trigs are a nice 0.7.

    Where does that fit in?

    EDIT as regards timing between tests, my GP told me 3 months at least for cholesterol results to show any significant changes.

    That's a huge weight loss ! Was it intentional or as a result of low carbing or both ?


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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mud Island Dweller on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:20

    l have a feeling l went nuts on cream and meat. I have had a huge cream cut only have them once a day with berries and even then is a small pot of berries with cream.
    If l am working away l put a small amount cream (couple of t.spoons) in my scrambled eggs ... l don't have eggs/cream at home as hub cooks breakfast in a pan... l have to microwave and no cream the eggs go bouncy..course could also be my cooking that result.

    Meat wise l tend to have at home one or possibly 2 rashers of bacon with my breakfast and have hugely upped my fish intake. Again away l microwave so for dinner l have veg and those cod portions in sauce l pack lasts my week (mon-thur) l go home Friday night. As hub loves fish l have asked him to do as much fish as he can when l am home which he is over the moon at.

    I add tumeric, flax seed, chia seed, hemp seed to all my meals high fat or not. As said before l don't do calories. I have also been a lot more careful about meat in general and dairy products.

    I also have a dn who can not come to terms with my hba1c l am the only one who gets such figures. I told her get them eating properly her reply was... they are elderly for the most part and don't want to change.

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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Bluetit on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:29

    @mo1905 wrote:
    @Bluetit wrote:I am like Rod. I have lost 3stones 5lbs since January on low carb but moderate fats. I am not as low carb as some (62g current average) and have increased fats just enough to make up my calories to 1200 for weight loss by ditching all low fat products. I don't overdo the fat, never touch cream, and have only just added back some cheese as I need to increase my calories now. I still eat red meat, bacon, loads of eggs, oily fish and white fish in similar quantities to before. My cholesterol has dropped from the levels it was at diagnosis in January, and my Trigs are a nice 0.7.

    Where does that fit in?

    EDIT as regards timing between tests, my GP told me 3 months at least for cholesterol results to show any significant changes.


    That's a huge weight loss ! Was it intentional or as a result of low carbing or both ?


    It was entirely intentional, by low carbing and moderate fats. It wasn't rapid though - about 1.5lbs a week with no stalling and no gains, just a steady loss, but I was calorie counting in addition to carb counting and was careful not to exceed my 1200 apart from weekends. My BS levels are also under control and dropping steadily to normal levels. My GP saw me recently for the first time since January and looked concerned, thinking I had lost it due to illness! (Never felt fitter!)
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by mo1905 on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:33

    That's superb ! I think 1.5lbs a week is about right and is sustainable. Rapid weight loss usually ends up going back on !


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    Mrs Vimes
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mrs Vimes on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:36

    I'll let you know if it works. I did think that two months was a short time but my DN was purple faced and bulgy eyed.

    Sorry if this post is repeated but I typed it out and it seems to gave disappeared.

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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Bluetit on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:40

    @mo1905 wrote:That's superb ! I think 1.5lbs a week is about right and is sustainable. Rapid weight loss usually ends up going back on !

    Thank you! Slow but sure, like the tortoise and the hare. The tortoise always wins.
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    Re: Statins

    Post by OldTech on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:44

    One study that helped to make me more comfortable with my decision not to take statins showed that statins made BG control more difficult by adding 0.46 mmol/l to BG and 0.5 % to A1C on average. My doctor on the other hand was not happy!


    Last edited by OldTech on Sun Aug 17 2014, 19:30; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by sanguine on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:45

    I've had double cream on berries virtually every day since diagnosis, and in coffee.
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mrs Vimes on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:50

    @sanguine wrote:I've had double cream on berries virtually every day since diagnosis, and in coffee.

    Somewhere I've seen that 25% of people who go lchf have an increase in cholestoral. The advice was to decrease dairy so I'm trying that first. If anyone has heard different let me know please as I miss cream.

    I'm still eating saturated fats, have increased things like nuts and avocados. But miss cream on my sugar free jelly.
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by mo1905 on Sun Aug 17 2014, 18:52

    @OldTech wrote:One study that helped to make me more conformable with my decision not to take statins showed that statins made BG control more difficult by adding 0.46 mmol/l to BG and 0.5 % to A1C on average.

    I was prescribed Atorvastatin on diagnosis due to raised cholesterol. 3 months later, my consultant told me my levels were now "normal" but to continue to take them "just in case" ! I can't be 100% sure but my legs started to feel weaker and I couldn't do the same workouts that I could do before. I can't prove if this is just diabetes or the statins but I stopped taking them a while back. I'll re-evaluate after my next blood test.


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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Bluetit on Sun Aug 17 2014, 19:05

    @OldTech wrote:One study that helped to make me more conformable with my decision not to take statins showed that statins made BG control more difficult by adding 0.46 mmol/l to BG and 0.5 % to A1C on average.

    I believe this is true, and read recently that the American Food & Drug Administration is now insisting a warning is put on packets of statins about possibility of raised blood sugars.

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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by cold ethyl on Sun Aug 17 2014, 20:58

    I think that cutting down on the dairy makes sense if your cholesterol is not improving or worsening. Replace butter with monounsaturated fats and lay off the cream. I don't take the HF bit literally, preferring to think of it as just enough fat to keep the edge off my hunger. I use olive oil in salad dressings and for cooking( though mainly dry fry) and weighed portions of cheese. I still use skimmed milk and low fat yogurts as that's the taste I like. I agree that high carbs are what gets us in this mess but I'm yet to be convinced that we need to eat high fat dairy items like they were going out of fashion aka bulletproof coffee. Our ancestors undoubtedly ate fatty meat- I doubt they ever sat down to a plate of sugar free jelly and a tub of double cream!
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by mo1905 on Sun Aug 17 2014, 21:02

    Sounds similar to myself. I don't like the taste of butter so don't use it and I cut the fat off steak/bacon etc for same reason. My priority is to reduce carbs as this means less insulin for myself, hence, less margin for error. Fewer highs and lows.


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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by graham64 on Sun Aug 17 2014, 21:30

    What I found with LC/HF was yes my TC increased but this was mainly down to a big increase in HDL the good cholesterol, LDL only increased slightly and importantly the ratios improved

    Check out this calculator
    Cholesterol HDL, LDL, Triglycerides Ratio Calculator (SI Version in mmol/L)
    http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php

    Graham


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    Indy51
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Indy51 on Sun Aug 17 2014, 23:13

    My total cholesterol has always been in the 7's but my HDL was always higher than usual and the breakdown has totally changed since being on LCHF. I've posted this video elsewhere, but worth watching. The two things to be really conscious of (barring access to the particle counting/size tests available in the US) are Triglycerides and the ratio of Triglycerides to HDL. Mine has changed from (highest ever) 3.1 to 0.4 (last test) - the goal is under 1.3. My highest trigs were 3.8 - now 1.0. My HDL is now highest it's ever been at 2.3.

    I've never felt as bad in my life as I felt while on Crestor and wouldn't be at all surprised if it is what pushed me over the edge into full-on Type 2.

    My GP has thankfully stopped arguing with me about going on statins, though I got a lecture from the cardiologist at my last visit.


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    Mud Island Dweller
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Mud Island Dweller on Mon Aug 18 2014, 03:22

    Going on hoilday had huge discussion with ins. co. on why l wasnt on ***** statins l was furious l was charged more because of it. l was expected to put myself at risk for other problems to get cheaper insurance
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by Indy51 on Mon Aug 18 2014, 06:02

    @Mud Island Dweller wrote:Going on hoilday had huge discussion with ins. co. on why l wasnt on ***** statins l was furious l was charged more because of it. l was expected to put myself at risk for other problems to get cheaper insurance  
    OMG, I can't believe they're allowed to ask such bloody intrusive questions. Unreal  affraid 
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    Re: Statins and Cholesterol

    Post by mo1905 on Mon Aug 18 2014, 06:22

    How can they possibly charge you more for a medication you are NOT taking ?? Unbelievable !


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