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    More Science, Can You Believe It?

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    chris c
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Wed Apr 25 2018, 23:50

    Impaired glucose tolerance in low-carbohydrate diet: maybe only
    a physiological state

    https://www.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/ajpendo.00580.2013

    ties in with a lot of Peter at Hyperlipid's thoughts on "physiological insulin resistance"

    Plant-animal subsistence ratios and macronutrient energy estimations in worldwide hunter-gatherer diets

    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/71/3/682/4729121

    actually ties in with recent research like PURE and the Czech study into world dietary intakes

    Heart disease is common in humans and chimpanzees, but is caused by different pathological processes

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352420/

    the money shot

    "This difficulty in inducing advanced lesions in rodent and rabbit models is in stark contrast to the prevalence of severe atherosclerosis in humans, which occurs even in some individuals with mildly elevated LDL levels and no other obvious risk factors (Vasan et al. 2005). Indeed, despite statin treatment of their hypercholesterolemia 70% of such patients still have adverse cardiovascular events (Steinberg 2008).

    The clinical manifestations of atherosclerosis also tend to be much commoner in humans than in nonhuman primates. While captive great apes have a relatively healthy diet from the perspective of atherosclerotic risk (low in cholesterol and saturated fat), this is not reflected in their serum lipid profiles."

    There. the Chimpanzee Paradox, to add to the French, Israeli, Bulgarian and all the other paradoxes. Or as anyone with half a functional brain might think, the diet heart hypothesis/cholesterol hypothesis has failed yet again.
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Mon Apr 30 2018, 00:18

    Effects of a high-protein ketogenic diet on hunger, appetite, and weight loss in obese men feeding ad libitum

    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/87/1/44/4633256

    "It is well recognized that LC diets promote reductions in fasting
    glucose and insulin concentrations (54) and improve insulin
    sensitivity (59). Indeed, decreases in fasting insulin concentrations
    have been reported after 3 or 4 d of consumption of a
    low-carbohydrate diet (60, 61), and improvements in HOMA
    have been noted within 2 wk (62). In view of current theories that
    insulin resistance is a precursor for many other obesityassociated
    morbidities (63), the use of a low-carbohydrate diet
    may be a preferred option, at least in the early phase of weight
    loss. It is not known, however, whether these effects persist or
    whether insulin insensitivity returns rapidly when carbohydrate
    intake is increased."

    Well thirteen years and still alive and "nondiabetic" - but why the hell would I WANT to increase carbohydrate???

    Dietary guidelines and health—is nutrition science up
    to the task?


    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1136/bmj.k822

    Interesting comments especially from Nina Teicholz

    https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k822/rapid-responses

    Nita Forouhi is still fat so it looks like she doesn't know as much as she thinks. Dariush Mozaffarian has done some good stuff but Harvard are heavily financed by Unilever and Bunge hence his championing of industrially produced omega 6 seed oils.

    Jason Fung on Diet Wars

    https://medium.com/@drjasonfung/diet-wars-992db10afa2e

    http://junkscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Microsoft-Word-Red-meat-and-cancer_Final.docx-file1.pdf

    title speaks for itself
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    graham64
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by graham64 on Mon Apr 30 2018, 22:04

    Not really science but the BDA and DUK would like us to believe it is  Rolling Eyes


     Nutritional science and dietetic care for people living with diabetes

    (1) https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/page/journal/1365277x/homepage/nutritional_science_dietetic_care

    (2) https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/page/journal/14645491/homepage/nutritional_science_dietetic_care

    Loads of references don't intend to go through them all but this one I recognised: out of 320 dietitians only 21 would consider restricting carbs to below 30%  and just 1 would advise a keto diet 

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jhn.12436

    Meanwhile Trisha Greenhalgh has her say on guidelines

    Of lamp posts, keys, and fabled drunkards: A perspectival tale of 4 guidelines

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/jep.12925


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    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Wed May 02 2018, 23:02

    Thanks I'll look at those later.

    Impact of prolonged overfeeding on skeletal muscle
    mitochondria in healthy individuals

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1007/s00125-017-4496-8

    would be interesting to redo this while overfeeding with carbs, just for shits and giggles

    Fructose in perspective

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4c93/739e7fd63158735e3246b9fd47d46c6fed4f.pdf

    Richard Feinman and Gene Fine

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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by graham64 on Thu May 03 2018, 22:50

    Another nail in the coffin for the lipid hypothesis 

    Saturated fats are not the enemy. But processed foods are, according to a new policy statement from the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/saturated-fats-no-longer-the-true-enemy-experts-say/article26513320/


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    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Fri May 04 2018, 21:21

    Andrew Mente among others works at McMasters, they seem a tad more competent than say Harvard, did you see the latest bollocks?

    https://twitter.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/990154974003892225

    https://twitter.com/zoeharcombe/status/989872824100839424

    That Trisha Greenhalgh article was good. My GP and the one who retired both treat patients while Dr Evidence Based treats statistics.

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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Tue May 08 2018, 22:41

    An oldie from 1962

    The Heritage of Corpulence
    E. B. ASTWOOD, M.D

    http://sci-hub.hk/https://doi.org/10.1210/endo-71-2-337

    Lowering the Bar on the Low-Fat Diet

    David Ludwig

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1001/jama.2016.15473

    A film including Gary Fettke (with transcript)

    http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/tipping-the-scales/9712342
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by graham64 on Wed May 09 2018, 21:18

    Nothing that we don't already know but good to see nevertheless  

    A low-carbohydrate diet (LCD) improves liver fat metabolism in NAFLD patients

    https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(18)30054-8

    Ten years of keto 

    Conclusions
    In contrast to previous short-term reports on adverse effects of KDT, 10-year follow-up did not identify cardiovascular risks of dietary treatment for Glut1D.

    https://www.clinicalnutritionjournal.com/article/S0261-5614(17)31399-7/fulltext

    A Critical Review of the Consensus Statement from the European Atherosclerosis Society Consensus Panel 2017

    Apart from the EAS hypothesis that LDL causes ASCVD, recent pharmacological/biochemical studies, as summarized in this review and elsewhere, have revealed that atherosclerosis is caused by statins taken to lower LDL-C, as well as by warfarin and some types of vegetable fats and oils, in the absence of significantly elevated LDL-C levels. Thus, the promotion of statin treatment by the Statement is rather risky and we do not feel that the conclusions are justified for the prevention of ASCVD.

    https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/486374


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    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes

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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by Long birder on Thu May 10 2018, 09:38

    Hi Graham,
    That is been known for a long time and is subject of study between warfarin and the novel anticoagulants.

    I think it is because both statin and warfarin are vitamin k antagonists.
    Derek.
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    chris c
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Thu May 10 2018, 21:50

    The first paper

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1093/cid/ciy287

    the second one

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1016/j.cmet.2018.01.005

    That'll upset the Musclebrain eejit.

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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by Long birder on Sun May 13 2018, 07:54

    Hi guys,
    The two discussions with the food scientist on the Fat Emporer site were very interesting and gave a lot more insight into the way the gut deals with food inputs.
    D.
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Sun May 13 2018, 22:57

    The Fat Emperor is brilliant, but I tend to prefer reading to watching videos. Just colour me old fashioned.
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Tue May 15 2018, 23:00

    Coca Cola vs. science

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1136/jech-2017-210375

    A Real Dietician looks at the history of the food pyramid

    https://louisestephen.com/2018/05/05/the-dietary-guidelines-experiment-part-1-2-2/

    More on hyperinsulinemia and metabolic syndrome

    http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.surg.2014.04.028

    The science against sugar, alone, is insufficient in tackling the obesity and type 2 diabetes crises – We must also overcome opposition from vested interests
    Aseem Malhotra, Grant Schofield, Robert H. Lustig

    https://insulinresistance.org/index.php/jir/article/view/39

    More from Virta

    Cardiovascular disease risk factor
    responses to a type 2 diabetes care model
    including nutritional ketosis induced
    by sustained carbohydrate restriction at 1 year:
    an open label, non-randomized, controlled
    study

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12933-018-0698-8

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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by Long birder on Wed May 16 2018, 13:53

    @chris c wrote:Coca Cola vs. science

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1136/jech-2017-210375

    A Real Dietician looks at the history of the food pyramid

    https://louisestephen.com/2018/05/05/the-dietary-guidelines-experiment-part-1-2-2/

    More on hyperinsulinemia and metabolic syndrome

    http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.surg.2014.04.028

    The science against sugar, alone, is insufficient in tackling the obesity and type 2 diabetes crises – We must also overcome opposition from vested interests
    Aseem Malhotra, Grant Schofield, Robert H. Lustig

    https://insulinresistance.org/index.php/jir/article/view/39

    More from Virta

    Cardiovascular disease risk factor
    responses to a type 2 diabetes care model
    including nutritional ketosis induced
    by sustained carbohydrate restriction at 1 year:
    an open label, non-randomized, controlled
    study

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12933-018-0698-8
    Thanks for your research, Chris. Very interesting information particularly regarding metabolic syndrome.
    regards
    Derek

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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by Long birder on Thu May 17 2018, 21:51

    Have the Russian hacked into some of those links, Chris? They come up in Russian type script! D.
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    graham64
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by graham64 on Thu May 17 2018, 22:28

    Eddie the maverick  Shocked




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    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Thu May 17 2018, 22:40

    @Long birder wrote:Have the Russian hacked into some of those links, Chris? They come up in Russian type script! D.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub

    Alexandra Elbakyan deserves a Nobel IMNSHO, she has provided open access to many paywalled papers. Academic publishing is a massive scam, authors may have to pay to get their papers published and the readers then have to pay to read them. The publishers rake in the moolah.

    Frankly no-one needs to "demean the profession of dietetics", the dieticians manage to do that all by themselves. *cough*outcomes*cough*

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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by Long birder on Fri May 18 2018, 07:35

    Hi all,
    Should all diabetics who have hyperinsulinemia be on an ARB.
    Insulin hacks the RAAS putting up bp and causes a multiplicity of problems.  Just Google...
    Recent study in "Sage May 8 Wolfgang Kopp". D.
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Mon May 21 2018, 22:31

    That's good

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1178638818773072

    downloadable pdf for free.

    Meanwhile

    Increased Whole Grain Consumption Does Not Affect Blood Biochemistry, Body Composition, or Gut Microbiology in Healthy, Low-Habitual Whole Grain Consumers

    https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/145/2/215/4585691

    Oh dear, the dietician hordes and DUK won't like that.

    Diet and Nutrition after the PURE study

    https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/39/17/1503/4987029

    they won't like that either

    “New” hepatic fat activates PPAR to maintain glucose, lipid,
    and cholesterol homeostasis

    https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(05)00110-5.pdf

    they probably won't even understand that one, I'm not sure I do either, will need to reread it. Just goes to show how complicated Real Science is.

    Dietary fats and cardiovascular health: a summary
    of the scientific evidence and current debate

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1080/09637486.2018.1455813

    they definitely won't like that one

    The transition to modernity and
    chronic disease: mismatch
    and natural selection

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1038/s41576-018-0012-3

    An interesting look at dietary history
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Wed May 23 2018, 22:12

    Resolved: There is sufficient scientific evidence that decreasing
    sugar-sweetened beverage consumption will reduce the
    prevalence of obesity and obesity-related diseases
    Frank B. Hu, MD, PhD

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5325726/pdf/nihms846128.pdf

    colour me leery of ANYTHING that comes out of Harvard, unless it is by David Ludwig. I bet they make him sit at the Naughty Table. I agree that sugar is Not Good but concentrating on it takes the focus away from other harmful factors. Replace it with starch and I suspect not a lot will change.

    Pathways and mechanisms linking dietary components
    to cardiometabolic disease: thinking beyond calories

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1111/obr.12699

    a get-together organised by Crossfit with some interesting contributions/contributers.

    Beyond the Lipid Hypothesis (Part 3): What’s Insulin Got to Do With It?

    http://cholesterolcode.com/beyond-the-lipid-hypothesis-insulin/

    put together by Siobhan Huggins
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by graham64 on Thu May 24 2018, 22:39

    The value of HDL higher the better 

    Serum high-density lipoprotein cholesterol is a protective predictor of executive function in older patients with diabetes mellitus

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/jdi.12865

    New from Virta

    Reversing the Trend of Diabetes Pharmaceutical Spending with the Virta Treatment

    https://blog.virtahealth.com/reversing-the-trend-of-diabetes-pharmaceutical-spending-with-the-virta-treatment/


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    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Sat May 26 2018, 21:31

    Ha yes! Similar to the numbers reported by David Unwin and an increasing number of other doctors, including others in the UK. The bottom line is that cash savings may make low carb more viable. Probably a reason for the current massive fightback against it.

    This ties in

    Identifying positive deviants in healthcare quality and safety: a mixed methods study

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076818772230

    positive deviants rule

    This might be of interest especially to you, Graham

    Lean diabetes mellitus: An emerging entity in the era of obesity

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4434081/

    Debunks the dogma that diabetes is caused by obesity and obesity is caused by eating fat. It's a field that definitely requires a lot more research, both into genetic links like mine and other factors like drug induced diabetes and other potential environmental factors.
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by graham64 on Sun May 27 2018, 22:09

    @chris c wrote:Ha yes! Similar to the numbers reported by David Unwin and an increasing number of other doctors, including others in the UK. The bottom line is that cash savings may make low carb more viable. Probably a reason for the current massive fightback against it.

    This ties in

    Identifying positive deviants in healthcare quality and safety: a mixed methods study

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076818772230

    positive deviants rule

    This might be of interest especially to you, Graham

    Lean diabetes mellitus: An emerging entity in the era of obesity

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4434081/

    Debunks the dogma that diabetes is caused by obesity and obesity is caused by eating fat. It's a field that definitely requires a lot more research, both into genetic links like mine and other factors like drug induced diabetes and other potential environmental factors.

    Thanks for the link Chris, yes it does require more research but will it be forthcoming that I very much doubt, if you don't fit the T2 stereotype may as well not exist as far as DUK are concerned.

    I'm convinced my diabetes was drug induced I've seen a couple of studies that point toward the use of anti depressants as a factor


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    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by chris c on Mon May 28 2018, 22:31

    Quite likely, steroids are #1 culprit but many other drugs may also be causal.

    On the other side of that coin, much work shows low carb and especially keto diets to be beneficial against an increasing number of "mental" diseases, not just epilepsy, and some recent work suggests chronic inflammation may be a factor in depression.

    A Jim Johnson paper

    Mild Suppression of Hyperinsulinemia to
    Treat Obesity and Insulin Resistance

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1016/j.tem.2018.03.018

    on a similar subject

    Ten-year weight gain is associated with elevated fasting insulin levels and
    precedes glucose elevation

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1002/dmrr.2986

    some excellent folks on Twitter come up with these studies and some of them are even dieticians
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    Re: More Science, Can You Believe It?

    Post by graham64 on Thu May 31 2018, 22:37

    An Integrated Understanding of the Rapid Metabolic Benefits of a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet on Hepatic Steatosis in Humans

    https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(18)30054-8


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    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes

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