The Low Carb Diabetic

Promoting a low carb high fat lifestyle for the safe control of diabetes. Eat whole fresh food, more drugs are not the answer.


Welcome to the Low Carb Diabetic forum,have you signed up yet? if not then sign up and join us in the low carb community today!

    DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Share
    avatar
    graham64
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 3222
    Join date : 2014-08-10
    Location : Lancs

    DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by graham64 on Tue Jan 30 2018, 22:30

    snip wrote:Starchy foods
    You should eat some starchy foods every day, the charity said.

    Starchy foods are used to provide cells with energy, while also regulating the digestive system.

    “Better options of starchy foods – such as wholegrain bread, wholewheat pasta and basmati, brown or wild rice – contain more fibre, which helps to keep your digestive system working well,” said Diabetes UK.

    “They are generally more slowly absorbed (that is, they have a lower glycaemic index), keeping you feeling fuller for longer.
    snip wrote:Dairy
    “Milk, cheese and yogurt contain calcium, which is vital for growing children as it keeps their bones and teeth strong,” said Diabetes UK.

    “Some dairy foods are high in fat, particularly saturated fat, so choose lower-fat alternatives (check for added sugar, though).”

    Aim to have some dairy everyday, but you shouldn’t have too much.

    Patients could try drinking milk straight from the glass, or added to porridge.

    Cottage cheese scooped on carrot sticks also provides the perfect snack for diabetics
    snip wrote:Fatty and sugary foods
    “You can enjoy food from this group as an occasional treat in a balanced diet, but remember that sugary foods and drinks will add extra calories – and sugary drinks will raise blood glucose – so opt for diet/light or low-calorie alternatives,” said Diabetes UK.

    “Fat is high in calories, so try to reduce the amount of oil or butter you use in cooking.

    “Remember to use unsaturated oils, such as sunflower, rapeseed or olive oil, as these types are better for your heart.”

    Patients should eat as little fatty and sugary foods as possible, the charity said.

    https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/911426/diabetes-type-2-symptoms-diet-plan-food-blood-sugar


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
    avatar
    graham64
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 3222
    Join date : 2014-08-10
    Location : Lancs

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by graham64 on Wed Jan 31 2018, 22:12

    And things don't get any better with this from Mellor and  McArdle  Rolling Eyes


    Low carb, Paleo or fasting – which diet is best?

    https://theconversation.com/low-carb-paleo-or-fasting-which-diet-is-best-89685


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
    avatar
    chris c
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Posts : 3567
    Join date : 2015-07-26

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by chris c on Wed Jan 31 2018, 23:02

    Two more dim bulbs.

    This was interesting, from eight years ago

    Drop that spoon! The truth about breakfast cereals

    https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/23/food-book-extract-felicity-lawrence?

    a fascinating history including the influence of the SDA and the Kelloggs.

    Meanwhile

    https://medium.com/@davidludwigmd/genetic-study-supports-carbohydrate-insulin-model-of-obesity-327d84be6d2b

    the paper is here

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1373/clinchem.2017.280727

    Meanwhile from EIGHTEEN years ago

    Obesity and insulin resistance

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC380258/

    "There are also grounds for considering the related possibility that insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia, in addition to being caused by obesity, can contribute to the development of obesity. "

    No, of course it is caused by eating meat. We must tax it now!!!

    The last two papers were quoted on a Real Scientist's twitter feed. I'm not going to say who as he has so far not been invaded by the trolls.

    Mind you I did also read a story where a dietician got something right. She was called in by a nurse because a patient had undergone a sudden weight loss

    "He just had his leg amputated!"

    I suspect the reason for the amputation may just conceivably have had something to do with the above advice.


    Last edited by chris c on Wed Jan 31 2018, 23:03; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : missed a word)
    avatar
    graham64
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 3222
    Join date : 2014-08-10
    Location : Lancs

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by graham64 on Thu Feb 01 2018, 23:05

    Just read through the Mellor article 

    "What is missed in this argument is that it is not only carbohydrates that encourage us to make insulin. Foods high in protein and fat do this, too. Beef, for example, increases insulin to a similar level as breakfast cereals "

    No mention of the effects of beef or cereals on blood sugar then 
     
    Referring to Paleo: "Dairy products are also avoided."

    No mention of the support his association the BDA give to a diet that removes all sources of dairy 
     
    "Evidence suggests that low-carb diets can help you lose weight, reduce your risk of type 2 diabetes and, perhaps, your risk of heart disease. However, these three potential benefits are largely linked to the energy restriction they cause and are not directly related to avoiding carbohydrates."


    Probably never come across a slim T2 were energy restriction is not an option nor appears to understand the benefits of reducing carbs on BG and other markers

    Blessed are the Low Carb dietitians  Cool


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
    avatar
    graham64
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 3222
    Join date : 2014-08-10
    Location : Lancs

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by graham64 on Thu Feb 01 2018, 23:14

    Perhaps Mellor should have a read of this new study


    A high carbohydrate, but not fat or protein meal attenuates postprandial ghrelin, PYY and GLP-1 responses in Chinese men

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0191609


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
    avatar
    chris c
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Posts : 3567
    Join date : 2015-07-26

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by chris c on Sun Feb 04 2018, 21:50

    @graham64 wrote:

    No mention of the effects of beef or cereals on blood sugar then 

    Blessed are the Low Carb dietitians  Cool

    He should look up glucagon. Just a thought.

    Yes it's good to see a small but increasing quantity of Clue in the face of the avalanche of stupidity.

    Here's another one from Roy Taylor

    https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs00125-017-4504-z.pdf

    I thought he was going to avoid mentioning carbohydrate entirely, again, but

    "So which dietary strategy is most appropriate? A low-fat diet
    (< 30% total energy from fat) has long been the mainstay of
    dietary advice. This is traceable to the association of high fat
    intake with cardiovascular death reported in the seven countries
    study [48]. Epidemiological associations from cross-sectional
    studies have been shown repeatedly not to represent cause and
    effect [49], but the belief is ingrained in practice and reflected in
    current guidelines for type 2 diabetes. However, it is now well
    established that it is adherence to any strategy rather than a
    particular macronutrient composition which is likely to result
    in long-term weight maintenance. Over recent years nutrition
    guidelines have moved away from prescriptive macronutrient
    content towards a more person-centred philosophy, acknowledging
    that there is no ‘one best diet’ for diabetes [50]. Three
    evidenced approaches (low carbohydrate, Mediterranean and
    intermittent energy restriction) are discussed in the following
    section as potential options for a maintenance diet following the
    initial rapid weight loss period.
    For many Europeans, decreasing or omitting the carbohydrate
    portion of the main meal, with or without change in other meals,
    is a simple change, easily achievable in the context of family
    eating. Low-carbohydrate diets (less than 120 g per day of total
    carbohydrate) and very-low-carbohydrate diets (20–50 g total
    carbohydrate per day) for diabetes management continue to excite
    vehement debate [49, 51]. A carbohydrate-restricted diet
    implies an increase in the ratio of fat to carbohydrate, conflicting with long-held beliefs about the risks of higher-fat diets. There is
    insufficient evidence to recommend an ideal proportion of total
    energy from carbohydrate in diabetes management [52]. For
    equivalent weight loss, different compositions of diet do not
    affect liver fat content nor any other aspect of fat distribution
    [53]. Despite incorporation into evidence-based nutrition guidelines
    in 2011 [50], UK clinical practice relating to carbohydrate
    restriction has not kept pace with the evidence base [54]. Lowcarbohydrate
    diets have been reported to be superior to low-fat
    diets for short to medium term use in type 2 diabetes, with
    comparable longer-term (> 12 months) outcomes [55]."

    Here's a big clue, give them a glucometer or a CGM and they will soon discover what works.

    Meanwhile

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1007/s00125-017-4407-z

    "However, the effectiveness of a standard lifestyle intervention
    on glucose metabolism is highly variable, and a substantial
    number of participants develop diabetes"

    THAT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE USING THE WRONG DIET YOU IDIOTS!!!

    So how about them GLP 1s then?

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1016/S2213-8587(17)30412-6

    Now to read your article.
    avatar
    chris c
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Posts : 3567
    Join date : 2015-07-26

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by chris c on Tue Feb 06 2018, 23:05

    @graham64 wrote:Perhaps Mellor should have a read of this new study


    A high carbohydrate, but not fat or protein meal attenuates postprandial ghrelin, PYY and GLP-1 responses in Chinese men

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0191609

    Oh yes that was good. Sadly the concept of hormones and not just calories will pass him/them by.

    Another

    Glucose patterns during an oral glucose tolerance test
    and associations with future diabetes, cardiovascular disease
    and all-cause mortality rate

    http://sci-hub.hk/10.1007/s00125-017-4468-z

    Giles Yeo should read that one, he may think twice about his high postprandials on his CGM. But he probably won't.
    avatar
    Wobblycogs
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 85
    Join date : 2015-11-18
    Age : 79
    Location : West Muddylands

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by Wobblycogs on Wed Feb 07 2018, 07:11

    Yesterday my trousers fell down of their own accord. I was in my front porch on full view.

    I am over the moon. A few weeks ago I had difficulty fastening the waist band. I suppose I had better make another hole in my belt! The only downside is I shall have to order some new cords with a 46 inch waist instead of 48! (By the way, when the embarrassing incident happened it was gone midnight; and I was just locking up for the night! So I don't think anyone saw anything! )

    Ho, Ho, Ho!

    BTW, I don't count calories because maths was never my strong point. I cannot exercise yet because I am still arthritic, and too overweight to do anything useful. ( Well I 'sit-tap dance' sort of!) See Donald O'Connor and Gene Kelly on Youtube)

    I have finally eliminated bread, (and other wheat products) sugar and potatoes from my diet, and I no longer miss or crave them. Now, when I shop at Asda I imagine I am on a desert island, where there is plenty of wild food. Any foodstuff I couldn't find in the wild, I DON'T pick from the shelves. In October 2017 I was dangerously close to 22 stones. (142 kg) I am now 18.5 stones; (117kg) so maybe it's natural that my trousers fell down!


    Regards Wobbly. Smile Laughing
    avatar
    graham64
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 3222
    Join date : 2014-08-10
    Location : Lancs

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by graham64 on Wed Feb 07 2018, 21:35

    @Wobblycogs wrote:Yesterday my trousers fell down of their own accord. I was in my front porch on full view.

    I am over the moon. A few weeks ago I had difficulty fastening the waist band. I suppose I had better make another hole in my belt! The only downside is I shall have to order some new cords with a 46 inch waist instead of 48! (By the way, when the embarrassing incident happened it was gone midnight; and I was just locking up for the night! So I don't think anyone saw anything! )

    Ho, Ho, Ho!

    BTW, I don't count calories because maths was never my strong point. I cannot exercise yet because I am still arthritic, and too overweight to do anything useful. ( Well I 'sit-tap dance' sort of!) See Donald O'Connor and Gene Kelly on Youtube)  

    I have finally eliminated bread, (and other wheat products) sugar and potatoes from my diet, and I no longer miss or crave them. Now, when I shop at Asda I imagine I am on a desert island, where there is plenty of wild food. Any foodstuff I couldn't find in the wild, I DON'T pick from the shelves. In October 2017 I was dangerously close to 22 stones. (142 kg) I am now 18.5 stones; (117kg) so maybe it's natural that my trousers fell down!


    Regards Wobbly. Smile  Laughing

    Wow that's some weight loss Wobbly well done, just cutting out those foods will have played a part and will also help with blood sugar levels 

    Just make sure you don't overdo the weight loss or this could be you 



    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
    avatar
    Wobblycogs
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 85
    Join date : 2015-11-18
    Age : 79
    Location : West Muddylands

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by Wobblycogs on Thu Feb 08 2018, 09:08

    Hi Graham...

    Well I do want to break the 13 stones barrier. I don't know if that's unrealistic mind. The heaviest I ever weighed when I was 'fighting fit' was 12 stones. I never had any issues with obesity, until they put me in a vehicle, and I no longer had to walk the pavements, shaking locks and door-knobs all night long.  So I do miss my walking. I am more worried about loose skin than showing my bones, because I am told the NHS will not remove it, free of charge, because it's my own fault for getting 'fat' in the first place. It wouldn't have anything to do with the outdated, incorrect advice, dispensed by  governments more concerned with the state of the grain industry than the health of the electorate. Ho, Ho Ho!

    I have been laughed at and called a conspiracy theorist, because I point out just how much money 'Big Pharma' would lose if they found a REAL cure for diabetes, and hypertension. And because I ask why  the NHS don't tell us about inflammation...

    So I decided to try healing myself. I won't  stop  taking my meds until I feel right again. Then I shall try to discuss it with my Doctor; who once told me to gargle with salt water for a chest infection!!!

    Cheers

    Wobbly  thumb-up

    1 Metformin daily, 2 Blockers daily and 1 Clopidogrel tablet. The latter prescribed because the stroke specialist in the hospital was unaware that an ocular migraine, displays symptoms identical to those of a mini-stroke! (Fleeting numbness in the fingers and lips, and slight speech confusion. All harmless and temporary. The warning one gets is a jagged ring of flashing light, gradually expanding until it vanishes and you feel fine again. Sometimes I get the the numbness and sometimes not. All explained to the specialist, who despite finding nothing after an MRI scan, prescribed the blood thinning agent.

    And has anyone else noticed how indignant some Doctors get when you display some knowledge of their 'craft'? Or is it just me?
    avatar
    graham64
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 3222
    Join date : 2014-08-10
    Location : Lancs

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by graham64 on Thu Feb 08 2018, 22:50

    It seems odd that the NHS will fund weight loss surgery and yet deny those who have successfully lost weight by diet surgery to remove excess loose skin, it seems your are being punished for looking after yourself 

    You will always get opposition to low carb for diabetes due to the influence of Big Pharma and the processed food industry on dietary guidelines, that said there is a growing support for low carb and those dietary guidelines are increasingly being challenged by Doctors and other HCPs.  It will take time but there has been a big change since I was diagnosed almost ten years ago

    Best of luck Wobbly your certainly heading in the right direction


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over nine years,

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes

    Long birder
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Posts : 42
    Join date : 2017-08-01

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by Long birder on Fri Feb 09 2018, 12:37

    Let's face it they won't change until the establishment changes, and then they will make a virtue of it and critize LCHF people on some minor inconsequential difference pretending it is clear blue water.
    I have seen all this sort of thing before! Smile
    D.
    avatar
    chris c
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Posts : 3567
    Join date : 2015-07-26

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by chris c on Fri Feb 09 2018, 22:43

    @Wobblycogs wrote:Yesterday my trousers fell down of their own accord. I was in my front porch on full view.

    Hahahahaha classic! I assume you have heard of Butter Bob Briggs?

    Well done on the weight loss. It's not so hard when you realise how comprehensively you have been lied to.

    I used to get migraines, albeit rarely and not nearly as bad as some people experience. Th upside was that I never had normal headaches.

    Yet another thing that has never recurred since I went low carb. My main symptoms were flickering lights in the edge of my visual field, often pretty pastel colours, followed by a pain like someone had put a clamp around my head and tightened it. Then noises would become very loud and occur on the surface of my ears rather than out in the environment. One time the storemen were clattering loudly outside of my office getting together an order for a customer at the counter. I made the mistake of shouting at them and the shout was even worse than the clanking. Usually went on for an hour or three, after which I would just feel like crap until I got some sleep.
    avatar
    Wobblycogs
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Male Posts : 85
    Join date : 2015-11-18
    Age : 79
    Location : West Muddylands

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by Wobblycogs on Mon Feb 12 2018, 08:37

    Hi  Chris.

    Well, as I said, it was late at night so no real embarrassment.  Not that it would have mattered. I wasn't 'going commando'.
    Also, I hadn't heard of Butter Bob Briggs, but I have now!

    My migraines also come without any headache. Just the inconvenience that when they pass off I do feel unusually weary, and I go to sleep in the recliner; bought for purpose I suppose.  (Being retired, I can nap when I please!)

    I have also developed a deep hollow to each side of my 'abs'; (or where my abs used to be) so another sign I am losing fat? (Fat gained because of overeating and indolence; according to Kate Price!) In some instances, I agree with her opinions, but I am about to contact her to educate her on the cause of osteoarthritis, which she seems to think is obesity; when in fact it's the other way around. Clearly she is pickled in conventional wisdom where nutrition is concerned, and whether or not she listens, she needs to be educated on this point.

    My knee surgeon told me that over-stressing joints was an obvious contributing factor, and he said that the epidemic traced back to the fifties/sixties, when Governmental wisdom (interference) persuaded great numbers of people to don trainers and track-suits and take to the streets. I was one of those 'pioneers', being a twenty year old, and standing a sturdy six feet one; built like a brick outhouse and fit as a flea! I am still built like a coal-shed, but it's excess weight now! So here goes to compose an email in the hope I can enlighten one more person who is ignorant of the truth!  I doubt she will listen, being as bigoted as most of the other sheep! banghead

    Cheers;
    Wobbly thumb-up
    avatar
    chris c
    Member

    Status :
    Online
    Offline

    Posts : 3567
    Join date : 2015-07-26

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by chris c on Tue Feb 13 2018, 20:53

    Lots of things turn out to be "the other way round".

    I just remembered an incident that occurred when I lived in a big old house in the country. It was partly divided up into flats and bedsits and partly run as a bed and breakfast.

    One of the other tenants went for a shower and found he had locked himself out of his flat. Undeterred he went down into the basement, fetched the ladder and started to climb up to his window.

    Half way up and he triggered the security lights. There he was, stark bollock naked and pinned to the wall by several thousand watts of floodlights. Fortunately no-one around to notice.

    Mark Sissons (Mark's Daily Apple, which I used to read) was an endurance athlete who noticed the disintegration many of his colleagues went through after they retired. I can't remember if it was he or someone else in the field who pointed out what happened to so many of those cute little gymnast girls who had the joints of old ladies in middle age or less. His theory "walk slowly a lot, run very fast occasionally, lift heavy things" plus a Primal diet. Low carb, low inflammation.

    Sponsored content

    Re: DUK still spouting the same old useless advice

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Feb 24 2018, 12:17