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    Has my T2 reversed?

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    Wobblycogs
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    Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by Wobblycogs on Sun Jul 24 2016, 09:36

    For the last month I have been monitoring my post breakfast Blood Sugar levels more closely.

    I usually have a fried breakfast (except for the eggs, as I prefer my eggs poached.) and I have a small serving of tinned tomatoes. After each breakfast (2 hours or thereabouts) the highest reading I have obtained is 6.8 the lowest 5.4 (so far) The readings are close to non-diabetic levels, and I am wondering if this is due to the Metformin, or have I turned a corner?

    I've never had the slightest ill-effects from any sugar I might have eaten when I fall to temptation. So, I am mystified.  Maybe a visit to the Doctor is in order, for a proper fasting tolerance test, and some blood samples get my readings checked.
    Oh, by the way, my weight is still falling steadily!

    Has anyone experienced this 'phenomenon?

    Wobbly  sunny
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    graham64
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by graham64 on Sun Jul 24 2016, 22:03

    @Wobblycogs wrote:For the last month I have been monitoring my post breakfast Blood Sugar levels more closely.

    I usually have a fried breakfast (except for the eggs, as I prefer my eggs poached.) and I have a small serving of tinned tomatoes. After each breakfast (2 hours or thereabouts) the highest reading I have obtained is 6.8 the lowest 5.4 (so far) The readings are close to non-diabetic levels, and I am wondering if this is due to the Metformin, or have I turned a corner?

    I've never had the slightest ill-effects from any sugar I might have eaten when I fall to temptation. So, I am mystified.  Maybe a visit to the Doctor is in order, for a proper fasting tolerance test, and some blood samples get my readings checked.
    Oh, by the way, my weight is still falling steadily!

    Has anyone experienced this 'phenomenon?

    Wobbly  sunny

    If your breakfast was low carb I would not expect a big rise in BG, you really need to test pre meal to judge how much of a spike post meal your getting, metformin only has a minimal effect so not likely to lower BG by much

    If your breakfast on the other hand was a full English complete with toast, hash browns and baked beans that really would be phenomenal  Shocked

    Good idea to visit Doctors for a blood test a HbA1c will give a better overview of your blood sugars


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    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    chris c
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by chris c on Sun Jul 24 2016, 23:26

    I'm leery of terms like "cure" or "reversal" - I prefer to think of "control".

    Theoretically by the time you cross the threshold to be diagnosed "diabetic" you have lost half your beta cells. These don't grow back.

    However you can kick the hell out of your insulin resistance, thus greatly reducing your requirement for insulin, so even with half or more of your beta cells missing you can greatly improve your BG. Eat a "Diabetic Breakfast" of a bowl of oatmeal with a banana and skimmed milk, a slice of toast with low fat spread and no sugar added marmalade, and a glass of orange juice, and you may think again about how "cured" you are . . .

    Strangely over the years my carb tolerance has actually decreased at breakfast, but increased hugely by evening. I don't push it though, but an occasional high carb meal when eating out is not nearly as devastating as it used to be.

    Whatever you call it though, it's a brilliant performance, you're obviously doing the right thing!
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    Eddie
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by Eddie on Mon Jul 25 2016, 09:20

    "Eat a "Diabetic Breakfast" of a bowl of oatmeal with a banana and skimmed milk, a slice of toast with low fat spread and no sugar added marmalade, and a glass of orange juice, and you may think again about how "cured" you are . . ."

    Have to agree with that statement. Around a year into holding non diabetic BG numbers most of the time, I thought I would see how 'cured' I was. I checked BG in the fives, then ate a large scone smothered in cream and jam, I reckon 100 plus carbs. Within an hour BG was 12, I did not test at two hours, probably even higher. Most non diabetics have a small store of insulin in reserve. When BG starts to go up, it kicks in. This is called the primary insulin response. Trouble is T2 diabetics have lost the primary insulin response, hence we are always playing catch up to rising BG. Some years ago I tested my BG against non diabetic members, after eating the same foods and quantity of food. As you would expect my BG went higher, also, my BG took longer to get back to non diabetic.

    There is no cure for T2 diabetes, as Chris says it can be controlled. We can reverse the main and most damaging symptom, highly elevated BG numbers. One of the things that sickens me the most about the average dietitian, is when they say "low carb cannot be maintained long term" it has to be maintained for the rest of our lives, because we are never cured.

    Prof. Roy Taylor and his Newcastle diet looks good if you do not look to hard, people call it a cure, no way is it a cure. Because people cannot remain on a starvation diet for very long. It's not rocket science to work out, what happens when they go back to the usual suspect foods.

    As for a glucose tolerance test, I reckon I would fail it big time, I reckon for most T2's the result would also be failure.

    You are doing great Wobbly just stick to what you are doing. As the weight comes down, so does insulin resistance, and IR is the reason we became diabetics. At diagnosis an overweight T2 diabetic can have up to three times the blood insulin levels as a slim non diabetic. When you think hard about that fact, it shows the lunacy of giving insulin to a T2 in the early days. The same goes for T2 meds that force the pancreas to output more insulin. More insulin is the last thing most T2's need. Not many medics know that rofl Yeah, I know, but you have to larf ......or cry. So many medics and dietitians are clueless, even about the basics regarding safe diabetes control.

    One last point. If you can eat the high carb grub mentioned by Chris above, and hold non diabetic numbers, you are not a diabetic, and never was. If you can't get a GT test on the NHS it's very easy to do one on yourself.


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by Wobblycogs on Mon Jul 25 2016, 11:05

    I ate the bowl of oatmeal today. (Don't like 'Narnahs!) I also had a glass of pure pineapple juice. (I drink this two or three times a week, as it's on Diet Doctor's list as ok. in moderation.  Half an hour later I was up in the 10s, and after another hour I am now on 8.0 precisely, after doing  bit of housework.  As my bowl of porridge was a generous portion, I'll test again in another hour. But I see what you mean...  freakout

    Asda's granulated sweetener, in the oats BTW!
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by Eddie on Tue Jul 26 2016, 18:54

    @Wobblycogs wrote:I ate the bowl of oatmeal today. (Don't like 'Narnahs!) I also had a glass of pure pineapple juice. (I drink this two or three times a week, as it's on Diet Doctor's list as ok. in moderation.  Half an hour later I was up in the 10s, and after another hour I am now on 8.0 precisely, after doing  bit of housework.  As my bowl of porridge was a generous portion, I'll test again in another hour. But I see what you mean...  freakout

    Asda's granulated sweetener, in the oats BTW!

    "Half an hour later I was up in the 10s, and after another hour I am now on 8.0 precisely, after doing bit of housework."

    Ya can't beat cereals for banging up BG numbers. Must be over eight years since I ate a generous size portion of All Bran (not Sid's portion control 17 grams of corn flakes) BG went up like a rocket, box went in the bin. Shame I used to love cereals and ice cold milk anytime of day. Things we do to save our feet from dropping off eh. affraid


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by chris c on Wed Jul 27 2016, 22:30

    I've probably never had a proper Phase 1 insulin response - looking right back to early childhood I believe my pattern has always been that I go high around 1 hour after eating, but by two hours I am substantially back to normal. Then 3 - 4 hours out I drop substantially BELOW normal BG, and it's the rapid drop that generates the symptoms most doctors claimed were either psychiatric or just plain made up. By only looking at fasting or 2 hour postprandial doctors completely miss the problem - and the obvious treatment.

    That's the huge benefit of self-testing, you can see what's occurring when you're not supposed to look, and more to the point you can discover how appalling the standard advice is, and find out what actually works.

    It's all very well my doctor saying, with some pride "By now we would have expected you to be on two or three medications" without seeming to realise that she was NOT part of the solution, or that many/most of her other diabetics and especially prediabetics could do this GIVEN THE CORRECT INFORMATION. OTOH it could be worse, one of her colleagues stated that there was never anything wrong with me. It's still disappointingly common for doctors to either claim well controlled patients are "cured" or that they were "never diabetic" without looking at the Big Picture. They may have been told that "only A1c is important" or that it is "perfectly normal" for BG to go up after eating, but it doesn't take that long on PubMed to discover that postprandial spikes correlate to macrovascular damage.

    I know enough diabetics who have tested friends and family and found the same as Richard Bernstein - who used to test meter salesmen - that GENUINE nondiabetics have VERY tightly controlled BG. Everyone else is in trouble and just haven't been diagnosed YET. Of course if we die before being diagnosed, or after being undiagnosed, that improves the NHS statistics.
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by Wobblycogs on Wed Feb 28 2018, 21:39

    What's the guff on baked beans? (I rinse the sauce away and add one tomato whizzed up.) Tastes the same but not so sweet. Highest reading in the last month is 6.0. Lowest 5.4. One metformin per day (500mg i think). Lost another 10lbs since Christmas. (And I had a serving of Xmas pud, and a  Beef Wellington for Xmas lunch.

    PS I am running out of Code free test strips. Where can I get some please?)
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by graham64 on Wed Feb 28 2018, 22:52

    @Wobblycogs wrote:
    PS I am running out of Code free test strips. Where can I get some please?)


    You can source them from:

    https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/sd-codefree-test-strips-to-be-used-only-with-the-sd-monitor/

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-x-SD-Codefree-Blood-Glucose-Strips-/310354761742

    Don't forget to select Yes I have diabetes to the Are you Diabetic?: question to ensure you don't pay VAT on the strips


    _________________
    I'm a skinny T2 diagnosed 4/4/2008, a high calorie LCHF diet and one metformin a day A1c 6.2 and no complications.

    Proving the LowCarb sceptics wrong for over ten years

    Not all cherubs are Angels  Wink nor all diabetics Bonkers  Rolling Eyes
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    chris c
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    Re: Has my T2 reversed?

    Post by chris c on Thu Mar 01 2018, 20:30

    You're doing well!

    Fortunately I never liked baked beans so don't miss them. I do rather rarely eat kidney beans in chilli beef, and sometimes broad beans, and last night I boiled some green split peas and added them to chopped up fried bacon. I do portion control to avoid the farting as much as the glucose spikes. Apart from runner beans they are something with highly individual responses.

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