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    In or out of the EU?

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    Eddie
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    In or out of the EU?

    Post by Eddie on Fri Jun 17 2016, 17:26

    I never expected to post on here again, mind you, I'v said that before, and made more comebacks than Frank Sinatra, and look what happened to him. affraid The reason is, I have nothing more I can say regarding the benefits of a low carb diet, especially for diabetics. It's a done deal, and so many big name medics and opinion influence setters are saying the same thing. The genie is out of the bottle, and will never go back. So many are realising whole fresh food is the way to better health.

    That being said, I'm in the mood for a bun fight. I want out of the EU, but at my age and state of decrepitude, it won't make any difference to me one way or the other. But, for my kids and grandchildren, this is arguably the most important situation of THEIR generation.

    What say you? anyone got an opinion? anyone else up for a robust debate?


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Derek
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Derek on Fri Jun 17 2016, 19:14

    Hi Eddie,
    I hate to argue with certainty I do not see the issue as black and white. On balance I believe it is best to remain
    On lchf I do not believe it is an exact science and the final word has not been said. I would have thought as an engineer you would have this view? atb Derek PS nice to see you back!
    @Eddie wrote:I never expected to post on here again, mind you, I'v said that before, and made more comebacks than Frank Sinatra, and look what happened to him. affraid The reason is, I have nothing more I can say regarding the benefits of a low carb diet, especially for diabetics. It's a done deal, and so many big name medics and opinion influence setters are saying the same thing. The genie is out of the bottle, and will never go back. So many are realising whole fresh food is the way to better health.

    That being said, I'm in the mood for a bun fight. I want out of the EU, but at my age and state of decrepitude, it won't make any difference to me one way or the other. But, for my kids and grandchildren, this is arguably the most important situation of THEIR generation.

    What say you? anyone got an opinion? anyone else up for a robust debate?


    Last edited by Derek on Fri Jun 17 2016, 19:28; edited 2 times in total
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    mo1905
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by mo1905 on Fri Jun 17 2016, 19:17

    Yep, I'm out too. I don't pretend to fully understand all the ramifications but my gut tells me to vote leave. I am keen for the movement of people but it does need some sort of control. We are a small island and there is a limit.
    I honestly feel though that both campaigns have been deplorable and many campaigners should feel ashamed of themselves.
    Good to see you back Edward :-)


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    Type1, Humalog and Solostar, Metformin, Lisinopril ( BP ), last HbA1C 41 ( 5.9% ), 20th Oct 2014, HbA1C 43 ( 6.1% ) 9th Mar 2015.
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    Eddie
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Eddie on Fri Jun 17 2016, 20:19

    Good grief, I got some response.

    Jeez Mo, I thought you was dead, check out Escape from New York Snake Plissken ha ha.

    Agree both sides have acted like retards.

    Derek said.

    "On lchf I do not believe it is an exact science and the final word has not been said. I would have thought as an engineer you would have this view?"

    So was Dr. R. Bernstein, Dr.Jay Wortman and Dr. Micheal Eades not that I think I am in their league. When whole fresh food is considered a health hazard, we are all doomed.

    Derek also said "I hate to argue with certainty I do not see the issue as black and white." Argue with me all day long, I very rarely take it personal, we only advance by way of argument. Back to the EU. Let's have a look at what the EU has done for young peoples employment. Where are the jobs going to come from with millions more coming into the EU and countless hundreds of thousands coming to the UK? Official EU stats 2015.



    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    chris c
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by chris c on Fri Jun 17 2016, 22:52

    They way I look at it, if we stay in the EU, the rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer and the NHS is fucked.

    On the other hand, if we leave, the rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer and the NHS is fucked . . .
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by yoly on Sat Jun 18 2016, 13:13

    About the vote I am not in the UK so my uniformed opinion doesn't matter. But fiscal union without complete political integration almost always doesn't work. With a loose union of states  is very hard to make it work. Even in the United States of America were there is sense strong sense of a union among there citizens(after a war). There is always some friction between federal vs states power.

    About LCHF it is not rocket science there are only 3 macro nutrients (Carbs, Protein, Fats). Even do every individual is unique and his requirement may vary. There is a limitation on protein and carbs the body can process safely, there are hormonal limitations. Depending on your metabolic health and your lifestyle it will vary since they are in a continuum that get tighter as you age. So if you have problems with processing glucose(diabetic) is a no brainier you got to reduce glucose and substitute with good fats. The foods can vary because cultural reason but the idea is universal, there is no science that can dispute simple logic.
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Derek on Sat Jun 18 2016, 14:50

    Hi Yoly, I do not think the fat issues are resolved. I am not sure that ldl is not influenced by the wrong balance of fats. I think the type of fats and amount has to be taylored to the needs of the individual.
    Removing omega 6 could be a problem for the poor.
    D.
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by yoly on Sat Jun 18 2016, 20:55

    Hi Derek if you still believe that saturated fats are the culpable of causing heart disease. That is no impediment for a LCHF diet there is still plenty of evidence of benefits in reducing carbs and you can make a low carb diet without it being high in saturated fats or omega-6. Dr. William Davis a cardiologist and proponent of LCHF has program with this type of diet, so there is no reason not to follow a LCHF diet. The benefits for a diabetic are pretty clear there is no controversy possible. Also healthy fats aren't really that much more expensive than bad fats. Even if they will cost a little more they still can save you a lot of money in health care and medications.

    Plus you should be aware of the following "paradox"; (You can read more here: http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/the-sad-saga-of-saturated-fat/ )

    Two generations of researchers have tried to prove that eating saturated fat causes heart disease. Rather than growing stronger, as would be the case if this hypothesis were rock-solid, increasingly the scientific data is painting a picture more akin to ‘low fat Swiss cheese’ (i.e., not much there besides the holes). Take, for example, multiple recent meta-analyses of large populations followed carefully for decades, examining what they eat and what they die of [1-4] All show no consistent association between dietary saturated fat intake and risk for heart disease or death from all causes. In fact some of these studies show just the opposite – an inverse association of dietary saturated fat intakes and atherosclerosis or stroke. Interestingly, they also suggest that one’s risk for a coronary event increases when dietary saturated fat is reduced and replaced by carbohydrate.

    (snip)

    So, you may be asking, if consumption of saturated fat is not associated with harmful effects on the body, does this mean that this class of fats is completely off the hook? Our response is that the science of nutrition is pretty complex, so beware of black and white answers. Whereas dietary saturated fat intake is unrelated to risk for chronic disease, higher saturated fat levels in the blood do appear to pose a problem. As we noted, there is a lot of variation between individuals in their responses to any one diet. Thus there is an unmet need for tests that will guide individuals to the correct amounts of both carbohydrates and saturated fat to match their personal metabolic tolerances.

    In addition to the studies mentioned above in which high carbohydrate feeding increased blood levels of saturated fats, we have also conducted a pair of studies [18, 19] comparing moderate carbohydrate to very low carbohydrate diets. Because these were not very low calorie diets, the low carb diets were naturally pretty high in fat, containing 2-3 fold greater intakes of saturated fat than the moderate carbohydrate diets used as controls. The results were pretty striking – compared to low fat diets, blood levels of saturated fat were markedly decreased in response to the low carbohydrate, high fat diets. Our data indicates that this occurred because the low insulin levels accelerated the oxidation of all fats (and particularly saturated fat); plus the relative paucity of dietary carbohydrate meant there wasn’t much of it to be converted into saturated fats. Thus, from the body’s perspective, a low carbohydrate diet reduces blood saturated fat levels irrespective of dietary saturated fat intake.

    Now once we post this explanation of how saturated fats got such a bad rap, we know that we will get angry pushback from those advocates of low fat, high carb diets asking about all of the studies in rats and mice showing that high fat diets are bad for ‘you’ (by which they mean those rodents – not you personally). To that we offer two answers. First, rodents make lousy surrogates for human metabolism. A myriad of drug and nutrient studies show dramatically different responses between mice and men. Second, most researchers who study ‘high fat diets’ in mice use 40-60% fat and 20-40% carbs (leaving about 20% for the protein). Even at 20% carbs, this is still way too much to allow a mouse to adapt to fat burning like humans do when they get their carbs at or below 10% of dietary energy. As a result, at huge tax-payer expense, these many ‘intermediate carb’ studies tell us nothing useful about the human response to a well-formulated low carbohydrate diet.

    And so we end this sad saga about poor, downtrodden saturated fats on a hopeful note. Yes, dietary saturated fat continues to be scapegoated as the presumptive cause of many health problems in developed countries. However we now know that nutrition policy makers have indicted the wrong nutrient for the crime of raising blood saturated fat levels. If we can just banish the phrase ‘you are what you eat’, however, perhaps the nutrition establishment would broaden their perspective to consider how other offenders determine blood saturated fat levels and contribute to overall health and disease.

    There is convincing evidence that dietary carbohydrate exerts an important influence on how the body processes saturated fat. Thus, saturated fat, whether made in the body or eaten in the diet, is more likely to accumulate when aided and abetted by high levels of dietary carbohydrate, particularly in insulin resistant individuals (as in type-2 diabetes or metabolic syndrome). Especially in these substantial segments of our population, a one-size-fits-all recommendation to aggressively lower saturated intake with the expectation of lowering blood saturated fat levels is intellectually invalid and likely to backfire. Given our current epidemics of obesity and diabetes, we can’t afford to continue diet policies based on a tragically flawed, simplistic sound-bite.


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    Derek
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Derek on Sat Jun 18 2016, 23:10

    Hi Yoly,
    No, what I am concerned about is that the liver produces a lot of ldl when the body is fighting poisons in the body, I am probably poisoned through medication.  
    Do certain saturated fats increase this response?
    Derek
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    Derek
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Derek on Sun Jun 19 2016, 21:28

    @Eddie wrote:Good grief, I got some response.

    Jeez Mo, I thought you was dead, check out Escape from New York Snake Plissken ha ha.

    Agree both sides have acted like retards.

    Derek said.

    "On lchf I do not believe it is an exact science and the final word has not been said. I would have thought as an engineer you would have this view?"

    So was Dr. R. Bernstein, Dr.Jay Wortman and Dr. Micheal Eades not that I think I am in their league. When whole fresh food is considered a health hazard, we are all doomed.

    Derek also said "I hate to argue with certainty I do not see the issue as black and white." Argue with me all day long, I very rarely take it personal, we only advance by way of argument. Back to the EU. Let's have a look at what the EU has done for young peoples employment. Where are the jobs going to come from with millions more coming into the EU and countless hundreds of thousands coming to the UK? Official EU stats 2015.


    Hi Eddie,
    When the BREXIT free marketeers get control, our farming industry and jobs will suffer when subsidised goods from elsewhere come into the country.
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    Eddie
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Eddie on Mon Jun 20 2016, 11:27

    @Derek wrote:
    @Eddie wrote:Good grief, I got some response.

    Jeez Mo, I thought you was dead, check out Escape from New York Snake Plissken ha ha.

    Agree both sides have acted like retards.

    Derek said.

    "On lchf I do not believe it is an exact science and the final word has not been said. I would have thought as an engineer you would have this view?"

    So was Dr. R. Bernstein, Dr.Jay Wortman and Dr. Micheal Eades not that I think I am in their league. When whole fresh food is considered a health hazard, we are all doomed.

    Derek also said "I hate to argue with certainty I do not see the issue as black and white." Argue with me all day long, I very rarely take it personal, we only advance by way of argument. Back to the EU. Let's have a look at what the EU has done for young peoples employment. Where are the jobs going to come from with millions more coming into the EU and countless hundreds of thousands coming to the UK? Official EU stats 2015.


    Hi Eddie,
    When the BREXIT free marketeers get control, our farming industry and jobs will suffer when subsidised goods from elsewhere come into the country.

    The EU has wrecked the UK fishing industry and hard to imagine how the UK dairy farmers could be in a worse situation than they already are. Out of the EU we can decide what goods come into the UK. We pay £35 million a day net to subsidise the EU including EU farmers. Maybe we can spend some of that money helping UK farmers more.


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Eddie
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Eddie on Tue Jun 21 2016, 11:21


    Full post from a true patriot here. How the sheeple will believe any lie.

    https://moraymint.com/2016/06/21/eu-referendum-the-final-shot/

    Jean-Claude Juncker profile: 'When it becomes serious, you have to lie'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Derek
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Derek on Tue Jun 21 2016, 16:45

    I am afraid I could not bring myself to vote for Boris, Gove and Farage! Smile D.
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Eddie on Tue Jun 21 2016, 20:38

    @Derek wrote:I am afraid I could not bring myself to vote for Boris, Gove and Farage! Smile D.

    I agree 100%, but! always a but with me. I listened to the Corbyn speech today. He went on about workers losing their rights if we come out of the EU. I thought tell that to the millions here on tax credits to make ends meet. The million plus on a zero contact hours job. The likes of Sports Direct workers, BHS and the countless people stitched up by billionaire con men. In real terms I was earning ten times the average wage of today, twenty years ago, and I have never been a mega earner in my life.

    Like I have said, in or out makes no difference to me. But for so many others staying in will push them further into poverty. Out we take on one government (albeit corrupt) in we have to take on 28 governments. I have said it does not effect me, in one way not strictly true. My extended family have property in and around London. One daughter has bought and sold twice in eighteen months and trousered 200K profit tax free. So, stay in ramp up 300 or 400 hundred thousand per year to the population, because those who have, are going to have a great deal more. Those that can pay for private healthcare won't be worrying about the end of the NHS.

    People will make up their minds, and I think the vote will be to stay in. If the leave leaders had been different, we would have left. I have said from the start, Gove and Boris et al have been Trogan horses. "In" will be a license for this government to do what ever they like, it will give the corrupt EU non elected cronies a license to do whatever they like. Wait till Turkey is fast forwarded into the EU.

    My last word is this. All through history, when people and democracy are pushed beyond the limit, war has been the end result.


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Eddie on Tue Jun 21 2016, 21:32

    STOP PRESS

    Germany’s largest bank has predicted British stocks will be the best performing in the continent and top UK firms will outperform EU rivals by as much as 5 per cent after a Brexit.

    The forecast, from Germany’s Deutsche Bank, comes on the same day that the British Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne threatened tax hikes by reaffirming his catastrophic forecast for the economy, based on claims from the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) – a Europhile think-tank funded by the EU and the British government.

    The IFS claims to be “politically independent”, yet receives 50 per cent of its money from the UK government and 10 per cent from the European Research Council (ERC) – financed by the EU and established by the European Commission.

    The BBC, meanwhile, has not yet reported the news from Deutsche Bank. Furthermore, last night BBC News cited the IFS to dismiss claims Brexit would make more money available for public services, and introduced their spokesman as “many economists”.  http://linkis.com/www.breitbart.com/lo/D4HPy

    Good grief the fourth largest bank in the EU and German says this. The BBC won't say a word though.


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Eddie
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by Eddie on Fri Jun 24 2016, 19:27


    It's a crazy world, and boy, do I fit right in. affraid rofl


    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    Re: In or out of the EU?

    Post by chris c on Sat Jun 25 2016, 22:22

    Getting rid of the public school squit Cameron is a Good Thing. Boris, not so much.

    I'm reminded of someone, can no longer remember who, who called himself a Socialist Economist. Decades ago he made a very important point

    "Prices don't 'go up', PEOPLE PUT THEM UP!"

    I'm sure those in charge have already worked out how to continue to screw us. First priority will be to make highly paid jobs for all the returning MEPs, just as they deserve. Gah!

      Current date/time is Sun Aug 20 2017, 10:45