How I reckon the low carb game works.

It seems to me the promotion of low carb falls into roughly two camps. Those that have found their salvation in low carbing, namely people like us. We work for free, we want no more than to help people out, others helped us for free, and all are appalled at the lamentable information obtained from the NHS, DUK, BDA and countless other shill outfits and misinformation merchants. In our group are an increasing amount of healthcare professionals who are joining the cause. These people also do not earn one extra penny for promoting the low carb diet for diabetics, not that I have the slightest problem with anyone earning an honest crust for their work and time.

The next large group of low carb promoters are great for our cause, but also have turnover and profit as an objective. These range from bloggers with no medical qualifications to medical professionals with their eye on the pay cheque, good and bad in this group. I think you will agree, the low carb method of control is very basic, no one is going to make a fortune telling people to eat whole fresh food and stop eating the food that makes them ill. Telling people that over and over again can wear pretty thin quickly. How many books or seminars can you keep promoting before people say, great, I have heard all about, what’s new. So, to keep the ball rolling, you have got to keep devising new ways to keep the punters turning up, buying the books and turning up at seminars etc. Enter the spin.

Whatever way you look at it, nothing is new in this world, low carb has been around for well over hundreds of years, possibly thousands of years. But to keep the low carb game fresh and turning heads, you have to come up with a new angle. The Keto diet, the Mediterranean diet, the Atkins diet, the Paleo diet, the list is very long. But all boils down to the same thing for a diabetic, the low carb higher fat diet. So, if you have done the various diets to death, you need a brain baffler, a new concept, or a re-launch of an old concept to get heads turning. Enter the resistant starch debate, the low GI diet, the insulin index, the supplements, the morning primrose oil and the alpha-lipoic acid etc. etc. All might make a small difference to some, but to me this is like being able to change the instrument lighting colour on a car, possibly interesting, but is not going to get you where you need to get.

I couldn't agree with you more, Eddie, but, I'm afraid, it's life. Re-cycling the old with a new twist, seeking a new unique selling point (which nobody knew they needed) to increase sales. The thing which irritates me is that all these little twists and turns, sprinkling fairy dust on your porridge, cooking your pasta twice over etc are all distractions, loop holes, taking people away from what really does work.

And what does really work? May I refer you to my pay as you go web site, where you will be able to read all about HFLC, a new twist on an old lifestyle. Have the butter first, before you day "no" to the toast. You know it makes sense.
Sally

Yes that is how life is, but that does not mean we cannot change it. We must do our best to change it, and it can be changed. Never in my life have I seen such cruelty, stupidity and out and out corruption and greed. Understandable despair, mental illness and insecurity. Inequality at an all time high, God knows what awaits for our children and grandchildren. I had It easy and lucky most of my life, within reason I have had all the good stuff, but as I get older I have seen the light. Life should not be about more wants more in money, material possessions and self aggrandisement. Don't get me wrong, no one was a greater credit to his credit card and the lust for bigger houses and more expensive cars than me, but it very neared killed me. A near death experience focused my attention, and at the end of the day, who other than family or friends gave a monkeys for what I had, or not had achieved.  

This had a big effect on me when I read it.

"The culture and civilization of the White man are essentially material; his measure of success is, how much property have I acquired for myself? The culture of the Red man is fundamentally spiritual; his measure of success is, how much service have I rendered to my people?"

Ernest Thompson Seton

The other side of the coin is the anti-low-carbers.

First they had Conventional Wisdom on their side. "Everyone knew" that fat was lethal and carbs were benevolent. Oh wait a minute, our parents' generation didn't have epidemics of obesity or diabetes and "everyone knew" that if you wanted to lose weight you cut out starches, and that diabetics should eat low carb diets.

Dieting actually used to be called "banting" after William Banting. The likes of John Yudkin and Peter Cleave had best selling books.

Then Ancel Keys bulldozed all this into the dust, backed by George McGovern and the US Grain Lobby.

Modern researchers are rediscovering a lot of what was once taken for granted, and adding more subtle understanding as more is known of the working of the endocrine system, including but not limited to insulin and insulin resistance, leptin and leptin resistance, ghrelin, anandamide, adiponectin, cholecystokynin, incretins, SIRT, FOXO, MToR, etc. etc.

The grain marketing organisations and industrial food manufacturers are fighting back with well financed but totally biased "science", but mostly with psychological manipulations including but not limited to marketing.

Some "paleo" people are being sucked back in and deciding that maybe carbs aren't that bad, and maybe it WAS the fat all along, but not the heart healthy Omega 6 seed oils at all. And that maybe we are all "just anecdotes" after all if we "claim" that low carb works, or that Type 2 actually IS caused by obesity which is caused by eating too much (saturated) fat, despite all the research pointing exactly the other way.

I think all this is part of a "paradigm shift" but with a metric shitload of money being used to prevent it. Which do YOU think will win out, money or science?

Meanwhile the best you can do is to follow what demonstrably works *for you* to improve your BG, BP, lipids, weight etc.

chris c wrote:Meanwhile the best you can do is to follow what demonstrably works *for you* to improve your BG, BP, lipids, weight etc.

Exacterly but the problem being what works for us (LC) is viewed as heresy by some of the medical profession, anecdotal evidence abounds of the benefits of low carb especially for diabetics but as we know that does not constitute evidence. Personally I prefer the anecdotal than evidence based studies funded by Big Pharma, after over seven years as a T2 I know what works for me and it's not a DUK/NHS healthy diet 

I'm really sorry that I tagged Marty Kendall and brought him back to this forum to be attacked again by snide digs like this. Silly me. I'll know better in future.

Well I was glad you tagged him @Indy51 I'm interested in what he has to say.

Indy51 wrote:I'm really sorry that I tagged Marty Kendall and brought him back to this forum to be attacked again by snide digs like this. Silly me. I'll know better in future.

Indy this is a forum, we have very few real debates on here and if Marty wants to progress the insulin index on a wider scale, he should be able to convince us, after all we all dumped so many of our favourite meals and foods to go the low carb route. So many diabetics as you know won't even consider dumping bread, rice and pasta etc.

So far during these conversations it appears to me and others the Insulin index is of very limited use. No one has written it off as rubbish, no one has been rude or nasty to Marty. When some of us old timers started to promote low carb over seven years ago we were ridiculed morning noon and night at the flog. We persevered and most of us got banned, as have other members here. If someone believes in and lives a cause they have to be able to convince a diabetic, we have.

What should we do? say OK Marty great, sounds wonderful mind how you go. Do you or anyone else here think if I could get better control of my diabetes via the insulin index, I would not grab it with both hands. Marty has failed to convince me and I have said so, am I missing something big time? if so maybe you or other members can help me. It should be remembered the majority of diabetics are bog standard type two's the same as me, if the insulin index can help me, it can help countless millions.

I honestly don't think Marty needs to convince anybody of anything. Read the stuff and make up your own mind. I have and I guess you have too and I don't think any forum members need your approval before deciding for themselves. I don't think he's trying to sell anybody on anything - he's offering the information and if people want to use it they can - or not as the case may be.

I find it quite odd really that in the same week you can post something like Kraft's work and be so positive about it, yet then turn around and diss someone who is only trying to build a practical resource for people who want to avoid the consequences that Kraft is predicting.

Anyway, I'm done on the subject - we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that as debating with someone with an already made up mind is a waste of time IMO.

Indy51 wrote:I honestly don't think Marty needs to convince anybody of anything. Read the stuff and make up your own mind. I have and I guess you have too and I don't think any forum members need your approval before deciding for themselves. I don't think he's trying to sell anybody on anything - he's offering the information and if people want to use it they can - or not as the case may be.

I find it quite odd really that in the same week you can post something like Kraft's work and be so positive about it, yet then turn around and diss someone who is only trying to build a practical resource for people who want to avoid the consequences that Kraft is predicting.

Anyway, I'm done on the subject - we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that as debating with someone with an already made up mind is a waste of time IMO.

I made up my mind a long time ago and was more than clear the last time Marty was over here. You got him back not me. I appreciate you want out of this debate, it would have been great if Marty could help me to better control, but he clearly can't. How has knowledge of the insulin index improved your control? As for Kraft's work it stands up totally, that guy is a genius, not just my opinion many far more clever people than me are applauding him for his life times work.

The bottom line, if Marty wants to come over here promoting the insulin index and posting live links to his blog all over his posts he has to expect some comment and debate, well from me at least. We learn nothing by playing nodding donkeys, this is a forum, with free speech, Marty has had his say, and can say whatever he likes, whenever he likes.

As for "I don't think any forum members need your approval before deciding for themselves" was that really necessary? Do you think for one moment I think that anyone has to agree with me or seek my approval for what they believe on this forum?

I think Marty himself has never suggested his ideas are for T2 but more suited to T1's. I think it's still a work in progress and may or may not be of assistance to some. Still, it's another tool. This forum is not really a cross section of the average diabetic. We are the fortunate ones who proactively looked for ways to control our condition to the best of our abilities. However, bolusing for protein is certainly not common knowledge, even amongst dieticians and professionals. It is not even really considered on the DAFNE course so there is confusion out there for sure.

graham64 wrote:

chris c wrote:Meanwhile the best you can do is to follow what demonstrably works *for you* to improve your BG, BP, lipids, weight etc.

Exacterly but the problem being what works for us (LC) is viewed as heresy by some of the medical profession, anecdotal evidence abounds of the benefits of low carb especially for diabetics but as we know that does not constitute evidence. Personally I prefer the anecdotal than evidence based studies funded by Big Pharma, after over seven years as a T2 I know what works for me and it's not a DUK/NHS healthy diet 

There's more than just the anecdotal evidence though, there's an increasingly huge body of work "hidden in plain sight" on PubMed.

The doctors should really be asking themselves why they were never told about any of it. Maybe the likes of Aseem Malhotra will be able to convince them to go look when patients can't.

mo1905 wrote:I think Marty himself has never suggested his ideas are for T2 but more suited to T1's. I think it's still a work in progress and may or may not be of assistance to some. Still, it's another tool. This forum is not really a cross section of the average diabetic. We are the fortunate ones who proactively looked for ways to control our condition to the best of our abilities. However, bolusing for protein is certainly not common knowledge, even amongst dieticians and professionals. It is not even really considered on the DAFNE course so there is confusion out there for sure.

The DAFNE course.

"Overall I think the DAFNE course is very worthwhile, the 100's of positive posts we have had on the forum over the years from people who have enrolled on it and come away with a new wealth of knowledge speaks volumes."

From Noblehead forum mod and a man clinging by his fingertips to reality "100's of positive posts" Reality, most have said it was a waste of time.

"The misinformation in there is staggering and it's a disgrace that such rubbish is taught to people (basal test for non-carb meals, don't count carbs in veg etc). I wholeheartedly agree that education is the route to a good HbA1c, but the DAFNE course is not up to scratch; it doesn't bring peoples' HbA1c below 6.5% and gives out misinformation. It doesn't deliver efficacy and if it doesn't deliver efficacy then it's not good enough. We should definitely have a DAFNE-like course, but the content needs to be drastically improved."

From SamJB a Scientist a man with a fine mind and speaks the truth, looks like he has walked from the flog.

The photo below is not a spoof, this is the sort of food DAFNE say is good for a diabetic and came from their site after a meeting and a high carb bash. Basically the course is about eat what you like and we will teach you how to cover the junk with medication. I bet big pharma and junk food loves DAFNE.

I haven't looked myself because you have to sign up before the content is revealed to you, but I've read several times that the BDEC course is head and shoulders above DAFNE for quality, and free online.