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    Arguments against Low-Carbing

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    cold ethyl
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by cold ethyl on Sat Aug 30 2014, 21:00

    I hope that with further weight loss that the odd potato or spoonful of rice might occasionally cross my lips. But I can't understand why many in the other place seem to want to rush back to having higher levels of carbs at every opportunity. If I understood the DN of my DESMOND course, by diagnosis the average loss of pancreatic function is 50% so I think anyone with any sense can see that it is better not to overly challenge the pancreas as even if insulin resistance is reduced by weight loss and carb reduction, the poor thing is never going to be a normal pancreas again.
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    Indy51
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Indy51 on Sat Aug 30 2014, 23:42

    I wonder about the theory of training your pancreas (I have visions of dog training). According to the OGTT instructions and Dr Michael Eades, it's not a matter of pancreas/insulin but more to do with digestive enzymes being down-regulated by long term LC.

    But I also wonder how many chances you get at averting Type 2 - I got 2x after substantial weight loss but third time unlucky, I doubt if any amount of pancreas training is going to reverse things. The studies seem to say that by the time we're diagnosed we already have substantial beta cell loss and there is some controversy about how much function can be restored by de-fatting the liver and pancreas.

    Dr Eades:

    "Following a low-carb diet makes one a little glucose intolerant, which is the reason that the instructions for a glucose tolerance test always include the admonition to eat plenty of carbs in the week before the test. Why? Because all the macronutrients–glucose, fat and protein–are broken down by enzymes during the metabolic process. And all the enzymes necessary for the metabolism of the various macronutrients are made on demand but not immediately.

    If you are on a high carbohydrate diet, then you will have plenty of enzymes on hand to deal with the carbohydrates you consume. If you switch to a low-carbohydrate diet, it takes a while to manufacture the enzymes in the quantities needed to deal with the extra fat and protein that your metabolic system hadn't been exposed to. This deficiency of protein/fat metabolizing enzymes is the reason people starting a low-carb diet become so easily fatigued–they've got plenty of enzymes on hand to break down carbs, they just don't have the carbs to metabolize. Once they produce the enzymes necessary to deal with the load of protein and fat, which takes a few days, they become low-carb adapted and no longer feel fatigued.


    Once people become low-carb adapted then the same thing happens if they go face down in the donuts. They don't have the enzymes on board to deal with the sudden influx of glucose, and, as a consequence, their blood sugar spikes higher than it would on a person eating the same amount of carbohydrate who is already carb adapted."
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    Sally
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Sally on Sun Aug 31 2014, 07:49

    I can certainly agree with the Dr Eades from personal experience. (Dr Eades was quoted above, by Indy, as saying, "Once people become low-carb adapted then the same thing happens if they go face down in the donuts. They don't have the enzymes on board to deal with the sudden influx of glucose, and, as a consequence, their blood sugar spikes higher than it would on a person eating the same amount of carbohydrate who is already carb adapted."
    I'm not diabetic (husband is T2), but have been following low carb for about 14 months and feel that I have lost my carb adaption. At a recent event, serving eastern European style food, I had to wade my way through a series of potato based courses, including potato soup, while the other half was provided with a special salad (grrr!). I began to feel quite groggy and sleepy. Within the hour i was fine again. Presumably a "second phase" insulin response kicked in and sorted things out. This has also happened with a one off over indulgence in Greek cakes!
    I'm perfectly happy being less carb tolerant as a result of low carbing, I'm slimmer, fitter and, presumably far less likely to become diabetic. Think how much our health services would save if we all reduced our carbs!
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    sanguine
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by sanguine on Sun Aug 31 2014, 07:57

    Thanks for that Indy, makes sense to me.

    @Indy51 wrote:I wonder about the theory of training your pancreas (I have visions of dog training).

    More like cat herding in my case cat
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    mo1905
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by mo1905 on Sun Aug 31 2014, 08:46

    So, to summarise, are we saying that once you go low carb for any length of time, if you do happen to perhaps "fall off the wagon" for a day, the carbs will have more of an impact had we been doing it regularly ?


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    Eddie
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Eddie on Sun Aug 31 2014, 09:28

    @mo1905 wrote:So, to summarise, are we saying that once you go low carb for any length of time, if you do happen to perhaps "fall off the wagon" for a day, the carbs will have more of an impact had we been doing it regularly ?

    I reckon that is the case for some people maybe most. Imagine being a heavy drinker, over time you build up a tolerance to booze, that guy can drink a bottle of wine with very little noticeable effects. A person that never drinks may well be flat out drunk. Alcohol could be viewed as being a poison, and carbs that raise our BG numbers to dangerous levels are poison to a diabetic, meds being the antidote. Don't eat the poison and you don't need the antidote. I try never to use the word diet as that implies a temporary situation, low carbing has to be for life.

    Clearly type one diabetics and some others have to use insulin they have no choice, but as we know, the less insulin the better the control for almost all.

    Regards Eddie


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    mo1905
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by mo1905 on Sun Aug 31 2014, 09:30

    Thanks Eddie, makes sense !


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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by sanguine on Sun Aug 31 2014, 09:32

    That would be my conclusion Mo.
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    Eddie
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Eddie on Mon Sep 01 2014, 14:59

    Dillingers post is going around the world !

    A day or so ago I posted up Dillingers post on our main blog. In the last 24 hours it has been read 294 times, just shows you what we can do eh !

    Keep up the great work folks you ARE making a difference. BTW This thread has been read over 500 times !

    Regards Eddie

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    _________________
    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    mo1905
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by mo1905 on Mon Sep 01 2014, 15:33

    Good news travels fast Eddie ! Unwittingly, that single post may save many from nasty complications, loss of sight, amputations and possibly worse. The internet and social websites are a powerful and quick way to reach millions !


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    Jan1
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Jan1 on Mon Sep 01 2014, 20:45

    @mo1905 wrote:Good news travels fast Eddie ! Unwittingly, that single post may save many from nasty complications, loss of sight, amputations and possibly worse. The internet and social websites are a powerful and quick way to reach millions !

    Couldn't agree more. If only one person takes 'new information' on board and tells someone else and they pass it on .....we can make a difference. Alas there will always be those that do not want to hear and their eyes and ears remain closed to something that may be that bit different and may be their HCP is not too keen on......
    BUT there is a growing number who have of course experienced something different and their reduced blood sugar numbers bear testament to this.

    We talk and share .....we do bit to help others......we pass on the good news about LCHF  Smile

    All the best Jan
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    Dillinger
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Dillinger on Tue Sep 02 2014, 10:04

    @mo1905 wrote:Good news travels fast Eddie ! Unwittingly, that single post may save many from nasty complications, loss of sight, amputations and possibly worse. The internet and social websites are a powerful and quick way to reach millions !

    I'd say 'wittingly' though... Shocked

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    Dillinger
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Dillinger on Tue Sep 02 2014, 10:05

    eddie1 wrote:Dillingers post is going around the world !

    A day or so ago I posted up Dillingers post on our main blog. In the last 24 hours it has been read 294 times, just shows you what we can do eh !

    Keep up the great work folks you ARE making a difference. BTW This thread has been read over 500 times !

    Regards Eddie

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    That's impressive - thanks for doing that Eddie and thank you for keeping on fighting the good fight.

    Best

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    Eddie
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Eddie on Tue Sep 02 2014, 23:17

    @Dillinger wrote:
    eddie1 wrote:Dillingers post is going around the world !

    A day or so ago I posted up Dillingers post on our main blog. In the last 24 hours it has been read 294 times, just shows you what we can do eh !

    Keep up the great work folks you ARE making a difference. BTW This thread has been read over 500 times !

    Regards Eddie

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    Arguments against Low-Carbing
    30 Aug 2014, 3 comments
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    That's impressive - thanks for doing that Eddie and thank you for keeping on fighting the good fight.

    Best

    Dillinger

    As of 11pm tonight

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    Arguments against Low-Carbing
    30 Aug 2014, 5 comments
    373

    Eddie


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    Type two diabetic-low carb diet (50 carbs per day) and two 500mg Metformin pills per day. Apart from diagnosis HbA1c almost 12-all HbA1c results none diabetic. For over eight years my diabetes medication has not changed. My weight has remained stable, I have suffered no ill effects from my diet whatsoever. Every blood test has proved, I took the right road to my diabetic salvation. For almost seven years, I have asked medical professionals and naysayers, how do I maintain non diabetic BG levels on two Metformin other than low carb ? The silence has been deafening !
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    mo1905
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by mo1905 on Tue Sep 02 2014, 23:24

    So, that's possibly 373 people who have benefited from this ! Result :-)


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    Andy12345
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Andy12345 on Tue Sep 02 2014, 23:26

    nah i made 373 accounts to make you guys feel good
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    mo1905
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by mo1905 on Tue Sep 02 2014, 23:33

    Still a positive Andy, I feel good lol ! Your energy is waning from Douglas99 sapping your strength lol ! You are a patient man !


    Last edited by mo1905 on Tue Sep 02 2014, 23:35; edited 1 time in total


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    Andy12345
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Andy12345 on Tue Sep 02 2014, 23:35

    lol all good fun, plenty of amo for eddie
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    Jan1
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    Re: Arguments against Low-Carbing

    Post by Jan1 on Tue Sep 02 2014, 23:57

    Here's another good thought.

    Dillingers post at almost midnight 381.
    Plus the number of views on this forum plus on twitter.
    It's too late for me to do any more maths BUT the figure is good.

    We'll keep on talking about the benefits that is low carb high fat living. sunny

    All the best Jan

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